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I'm happy to admit I've pushed limits with link building. Don't think I've ever gone as far as hiding links on a very popular forum hosted by web geeks that would almost have certainly found them sooner or later, but I couldn't honestly say I've never "spammed". Wouldn't do so for my clients though.

However, I wouldn't then go on the very forum I had spammed, complaining about how SEO is mostly unqualified spam based on by own failed attempts at being a spammer. That's the reason it was pointed out - the tests you're basing your assumptions and arguments regarding link building on are inherantly flawed. That, and the fact it's pretty funny to see someone getting called out like that.
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 9:06, archived)
# I fail to see your point
except that you enjoyed some schadenfreude.

So, please link to some non-spammy link building that you now do for your clients.
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 9:58, archived)
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Yeah, the schadenfreude was my point. Also, to make it clear that, for my part, it's not about comparing what you did to what an SEO would do for their clients. It's about laughing that you'd grumble about SEO and spam on a forum you'd spammed. I mean, did you really not see it coming?

And I'm not going to be drawn into linking to links to my clients. If you choose to believe they don't exist it's no skin off my nose!
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 10:06, archived)
# .
"If you choose to believe they don't exist it's no skin off my nose!"

-What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Interesting that it does seem to be a matter of belief to many. Like religion or homeopathy.

Also, would you say that someone who has had unsucessful attempts at SEO is really not in a better position to ask questions.

If I'm wrong, prove it to me with evidence.
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 10:12, archived)
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Yes you're in a good position to ask questions and my experience of people in SEO is that they love to answer them. They're not quite so happy to see their job written off by someone who tried it once and got it wrong so seems convinced it must be bullshit. I tried affiliate marketing once, made about $3. Doesn't make it bullshit - there's people out there making a buttload from it every day. I could write it off because I only have anecdotal evidence that it works for anyone, and I went into it unprepared and therefore sucked at it. Or, I could read, listen and try to understand what people are telling me.
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 10:49, archived)
# "Or, I could read, listen and try to understand what people are telling me."
How am I not doing that?

I am asking questions, I am trying not to resort to mud-slinging and point scoring.

I admit my initial post was deliberately obnoxious, but that was merely to make developers laugh. This is the sort of talk that goes on with developers.

If SEOs weren't so secretive about what it is they do, then surely this myth (if it is) that there is not a lot to it would not exist.

My own experience with working with SEOs was that if you asked them why they were doing something, they could not explain it logically. That is why I am cynical.

"once and got it wrong so seems convinced it must be bullshit." - I got to number one in yahoo, 3 in bing and page 2 of Google for a while, so it can't have been that wrong.
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 10:56, archived)
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Really? For what?
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 11:00, archived)
# .
"Web Design Leeds" / "Website design leeds"

edit: Can I point out that I am happy to show my own results here when asked. I see that I've gone back up to number one in Yahoo if you want actual evidence. Which seems very different to most people here who are unwilling to point to any examples of their own work.
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 11:09, archived)
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Wait til you're talking about your clients. They tend to be concerned with confidentiality and not being drawn into internet forum arguements.

And trust me, noone will ever judge your ability as an SEO on your Yahoo rankings. I only ruddy wish!
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 14:12, archived)
# What sort of confidentiality
is it?

Sites often list they have been SEOd, with a list to the company. So what sort of thing is confidential?
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 14:26, archived)
#
yeah, well, we don't do that, not for SEO anyway...
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 15:13, archived)
# What is the reasoning for
a confidentiality agreement?
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 15:46, archived)
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Well, I have access to a lot of information that my clients, for various reasons, would not want divulged. I'd like to keep that their trust, and I think I'd be risking that if they were to look at their referrals and see visitors from an endless b3ta thread about the merits of SEO. Call me paranoid.
(, Thu 24 Jun 2010, 17:08, archived)
# Before b3ta.com went nofollow?
(, Fri 25 Jun 2010, 10:50, archived)
# It was always no-follow.
So, I suspect that that made no difference whatsoever - which makes it more annoying for it to have been used in so many Ad hominem arguments and for it to have sullied my name.

I sold my soul for nothing!
(, Fri 25 Jun 2010, 17:21, archived)