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This is a link post You shat the bed; YOU wash the fucking sheets
If the surgeon who said it was a bad idea to carve myself a second arsehole with a rusty potato peeler spent the same time and energy helping me execute the idea, then it would work like a dream.
 (I helped save b3ta! My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Fri 18 May 2018, 23:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post ^^^^^This
Even Dan Hannan admits things aren't exactly swimming along. But, yeah, blame the people who said it was a both barrels in the foot decision.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Fri 18 May 2018, 23:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post Cept the the process and country is currently being run by a remainer.

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sat 19 May 2018, 7:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post It does not matter
if the whole idea in the first place is rotten to the core.

You could have anyone at the helm and we would still end up up shit creek without a paddle.

It's the only possible destination, the only change is the colour of the shit when you stop.

Having a different captain, even one enthusiastic about being up shit creek, would not make any difference.
 (I helped save b3ta! My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sat 19 May 2018, 8:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yeah, but a majority view the EU as the shit in the bed.
Only bed-wetters are comfortable lying where they are and staying in the bed as it is. The ones who voted out are trying to clean the sheets.
 (arch_stanton, Sat 19 May 2018, 8:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post Of course
in this analogy, the 'shit' is rules that would close offshore tax havens and make the country pay attention to the environment and force companies to put up with workers that have rights. It is frictionless trade and having somewhere nice to retire even if you are not really rich.

I can see why ultra rich tories would want that 'shit' gone but I fail to see why anyone else would.
 (I helped save b3ta! My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sat 19 May 2018, 8:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post The problem with an online connected world.
The amount of gullible, ignorant and thick twats tends to outnumber sensible folk. Misinformation is rife and spread far too easily.

TLDR

FAKE NEWS
 (I helped save b3ta! Fadgebadger (1 like), Sat 19 May 2018, 9:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Indeed.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post Welcome to advertising, sales and persuasion.

(arch_stanton, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post Wow, reading the leaflet this EU sounds a really nice place.
We can still have frictionless trade but the pricks in the EU don't want it. They want our money, my money, to spend on their 'projects'. Not every EU initiative is bad, but on balance its fucked up and undemocratic. Pretty much staunch remainers (a) will either profit from staying or (b) are scared at not having the EU do their thinking for them.
 (arch_stanton, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post
OK, look: "frictionless" trade requires institutions, and that requires regulation, and that requires membership of regulatory bodies. Bodies rather like those instatiated in, er, the EU. If you leave the EU, you have to build them all anew, and pretty darned quickly, too. And it's absurd to say that the EU doesn't want frictionless trade, given that it keeps on entering into trade agreements with other countries and blocs around the world in order to facilitate just that.

"They want our money" is simply absurd. Yes, there are contributor states and recipient states. But - holy fucking shitcastles! - the money that's paid out is overwhelmingly directed at things that'll raise the wealth of the recipient states, so that (a) they don't stay recipients, and (b) the people there'll be wealthy enough to buy stuff from the likes of us.

Do you complain about money from London or Manchester taxpayers being used to pay for welfare in Cornwall? Do you think that that's a reason for London or Manchester to declare UDI? No: because that's not how communities work. And if it's not how communities work on a state level, it's hard to see why it's how they'd work on a supra-state level. And don't forget that the EU has poured millions into regional development in places like Cornwall, as well as into things like fundamental scientific research elsewhere in the UK. I walk past the National Graphene Institute every day. It's EU-funded.

"Undemocratic" is a howler, given that the EU has no powers that it doesn't get from member states. Non-member-states have no such powers within it, but they still have to abide by EU standards to trade there. Meanwhile, when was the last time you voted for a representative to the WTO? (And we could turn this around, of course: if you think that it doesn't matter that we don't vote for representatives to the WTO, you've undermined your own argument about the EU's putative democratic deficit.)

Do I profit personally from being in the EU? That's impossible to say, but inasmuch as that I rely on a generally healthy economy - as do we all - and leaving the EU is likely to put at least a generational dent into that, then yes. Probably. So does pretty much everyone. And I also benefit intangibly, in terms of continent-wide peace and security, freedom to live and work, cultural flows, a general sense of belonging, and all the rest of it.

Or is all that just an instance of someone doing my thinking for me?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Christ, ardent remainers are boring.
 (I helped save b3ta! After you my dear Alfonse No. After you., Sat 19 May 2018, 15:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post Top quality rebuttal there.
You really showed him who’s got the most cogent argument.

No, wait. You didn’t.
 (I helped save b3ta! wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 19 May 2018, 16:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Come on. You didn't get through it either.
 (I helped save b3ta! After you my dear Alfonse No. After you., Sat 19 May 2018, 17:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post I did.
And your argument is shit.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post The "Undemocratic" rant always boiled my piss.
MEPs are directly elected, hence Farage. It's not the EU's fault if we generally don't give a shit about who gets in.

Council members are appointed by the member states, and the only reason we don't vote on those is because our government doesn't let us.
 (I helped save b3ta! jonbob loves you, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post People in western democracies whinging about how undemocratic it is here can safely fuck off

(benito vaselini no not that one, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:45, , Reply)
This is a normal post Putting money into the EU goes in part to develop the poorer countries in the EU.
We were growing the market into which we had frictionless access. It was in our interests.
 (I helped save b3ta! Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Sat 19 May 2018, 15:00, , Reply)
This is a normal post yes what's the matter world's Nobel prize winners, scared you'll have to think for yourselves?

(benito vaselini no not that one, Sat 19 May 2018, 15:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post A majority, you say?
Well, 52% of those who voted, maybe. That equates to 37% of those who could vote, which rather suggests that the majority was either in favour of, or at worst indifferent to, the EU.

And it equates also to 27% of the population, so your majority claim is looking even smaller.

But what about that 52%? Do they all have that attitude to the EU?

Undoubtedly not. Some will have voted to leave because of a full-throated loathing of the EU. Many won't. The polling before the referendum indicated that there was a range of "leave" positions, from the hardest Brexiteer of the Daily Express and Spiked Online sort, to very soft Brexiteers.

And, of course, some will have voted leave out of pure devilry.

So please do tell me more about that majority that views the EU that way.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post In a vote , the most votes is the majority.
That's how they work.

Your 'analysis' is just fiddling away like Uncle Ernie on babysitting night.
 (arch_stanton, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:21, , Reply)
This is a normal post this is the first instance I've seen of the Remainer = nonce argument
Thanks for bringing something new to the table you thick cunt
 (benito vaselini no not that one, Sat 19 May 2018, 15:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post Oh my god settle down, Benito
That was just a joke not an attack on remainers. His point was spot on, though, so you probably didn't want to argue that
 (I helped save b3ta! The_cold_stare Coming here only when very, very bored, Sat 19 May 2018, 18:08, , Reply)
This is a normal post Could you show your working out please?
Because that looks like the one where you try and make the poll illegitimate because babies aren't allowed to vote.

Last time I looked the turnout was pretty high.

Edit
Fuck it, suns shine why am I having this tired argument?
I'm off out, ta.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post Admittedly, AS was unclear about what "majority" meant.
If it was supposed to mean "majority of those who voted", then the claim is undoubtedly true; but since that majority was not of one voice, then the majority may be illusory.

If it was supposed to mean "majority of the electorate", noting that the terms of the referendum were such as to mean that many of those with the biggest stake in whether or not we remain were disenfranchised, then it's false. Most of the electorate was either in favour of remaining, or - at most - happy enough to remain. Likewise, if it was meant to mean "majority of the population".
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post
"They didn't vote, therefore they would have all voted as I did."
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post Not voting is essentially a vote for the status quo.
That's a pretty standard interpretation.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post So with that interpretation
Why were the rules of the referendum 50% of the votes rather than 50% of the electorate?
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 19 May 2018, 19:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post Because that's how we always do elections.
No vote essentially being in favour of the status quo is just a rule of thumb, not a hard and fast rule upon which it is reasonable to base elections.

Consider a vote between the status quo and change in general terms.

The typical psychology of people who like the status quo is happiness and complacency; they like it how it is, and it's natural for them to assume most of everyone else is broadly as happy. A comparatively high proportion will not bother to vote because everything is fine as far as they're concerned.

The typical psychology of people who want change is dissatisfaction and motivation; they don't like it and given that many people around them don't seem to be doing anything about it they'll have to do something about it themselves. A comparatively low proportion in favour of change will not bother to vote, because they all want something to happen and they're way more motivated.

If there were to be a second referendum, the status quo and change biases would be shaken up and partially inverted... all the complacent remainers would no longer be complacent... neither would the leavers but it's fairly reasonable to assume there were far fewer of them. And that's not even taking into account the number of on-the-fence leavers many of whom will have changed their minds since the revelations about lying buses, etc. I doubt there are many remainers who will have been convinced of the benefits of Brexit due to the smooth way it's been handled so far.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sat 19 May 2018, 20:31, , Reply)
This is a normal post Completely at a loss as to why not voting equates to voting remain?

(sithemong, Sat 19 May 2018, 12:03, , Reply)
This is a normal post Because people that voted leave are ignorant racists
But those that couldn't make a mark on a bit of paper are clearly enlightened europhiles.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sat 19 May 2018, 12:50, , Reply)
This is a normal post Prove it.

(PhosphorBurnedEyes Swastika Shop opening here soon, Sat 19 May 2018, 13:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post Was sarcasm....

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sat 19 May 2018, 13:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post It doesn't.
But it doesn't have to. The onus was on Leave to show overwhelming popular support, because it was Leave demanding change. On that, they failed.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 19 May 2018, 13:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post They failed
Except according to the rules of the referendum - which both sides accepted prior to the vote - they won.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 19 May 2018, 14:21, , Reply)
This is a normal post If we had the vote again, say next week,
which way do you think it would go?

I suspect the number of remainers who will have changed their minds is going to be close to zero.

I suspect that the people who didn't vote (many of whom figured the leave side didn't stand a chance) would mostly choose remain if they decided to vote the second time.

I suspect the number of brexiters who will have changed their minds is liable to be significant.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post Honestly I think leave would win again
And probably by more. Mainly because it would reinforce the perception that the EU don't give a crap about our opinion and will keep asking the question until they get the answer they want.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post The EU never asked the question.
What does the EU's opinion of our vote even matter, given that they're clearly going along with it?

Do you really think people are voting based on what the international community will think of them, or is it more likely they're voting based on what they think will be best for themselves and the place that they live?
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Ok, so the EU's representatives on this planet then. The EU themselves clearly didn't give a fuck about our opinion when they sent Cameron back empty handed resulting in him agreeing to the referendum in the first place.
 (I helped save b3ta! evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sat 19 May 2018, 19:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post
There's a difference between not giving a fuck about a someone's opinion, and not caving in to someone's demands.

I'm not a fan of the EU... I actually think there are many valid reasons to dislike it, and I would have liked to see some reform. But this absolute debacle is almost entirely our own fault:

The terms of the debate were just outright lies on both side. Many (not all but many) votes have been cast as the result of simple reactionary xenophobia founded on false premises. The figures leading all sides and all parties have been disingenuous and have played games for political points. Our government (consisting of both remainers and leavers) has made promises that it simply doesn't have the capability of delivering upon (to both the people of Britain and to the EU). The opposition (consisting of both remainers and leavers) has hypothesised similarly untenable counter proposals.

Certainly there have been some unhelpful comments from some deeply distasteful figures in the EU. Junker, Schulz and Verhofstadt in particular have made a number of inflammatory statements, but at the end of the day they're not beholden to us any more... their job is not to do what we say, it's to get the best result for the rest of Europe.
 (eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sat 19 May 2018, 20:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post I suspect...
A lot of people that were tricked into voting remain by the scare mongering tactics will be thinking again next time round.

See we can all play the "I suspect" game.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sat 19 May 2018, 19:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post Because no vote is essentially a vote for the status quo.

(eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ok, IF all that is true.
Where's all the bloody protest marches?
Was at least expecting a few good student direct action demos.

All I've seen is a few thousand people.
Marching peacefully with their silly blue flags.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sat 19 May 2018, 12:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post LMGTFY
25 June 2016
28 June 2016
2 July 2016
3 September 2016
25 March 2017
9 September 2017
(Admittedly, they've been short on violence.)
 (Pie of Meat ___°¬¯O¯____\o/_____/\_,____Y¯¯Y, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post Wait till the shape of our brave new world becomes clear
Once the unemployment kicks in there will be blood
 (benito vaselini no not that one, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ah yes I remember the bloody riots when there were 4 million unemployed in the 80s...
Why are you so sure that unemployment will rocket then? What do you actually know?
 (I helped save b3ta! The_cold_stare Coming here only when very, very bored, Sat 19 May 2018, 18:12, , Reply)
This is a normal post So do I
I remember the brixton riot in 1981, another in 1985, the poll tax riots,

Hell, just in April 1981–July 1981 there were riots in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and Liverpool.

The 80's were full of riots caused by people being poor and the police being racist.

Just like the situation we will be in after brexit.

Rising business costs lead to less jobs being afforded by business, it is very basic. If you increase costs for trade you get less trade and need less workers. This means more unemployment.

If you would like to show how increased costs and tougher borders will lead to more employment I am all ears.
 (I helped save b3ta! My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sun 20 May 2018, 9:37, , Reply)
This is a normal post "it is very basic"
It really isn't. Economics is incredibly complicated. I can't show that rising costs and tougher borders will lead to more employment but you can't show me that unemployment will increase. Why would costs rise when we leave the EU? You are talking as if the EU has protected little old Britain from all the other nasty continents. There is no evidence for this. However we can show billions of pounds being pumped into the EU over the years - would be nice to keep that money to run our own country, wouldn't it?
 (I helped save b3ta! The_cold_stare Coming here only when very, very bored, Mon 21 May 2018, 18:08, , Reply)
This is a normal post "All I've seen is a few thousand people. Marching peacefully with their silly blue flags."
Well thanks for proving my point.
Those small demos wouldn't even have been reported if it wasn't for the brexit angle.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sat 19 May 2018, 19:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post Tens of thousands are "a few thousand" and "small"?

(Pie of Meat ___°¬¯O¯____\o/_____/\_,____Y¯¯Y, Sun 20 May 2018, 12:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post Certainly not a major demo.

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sun 20 May 2018, 17:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post You're much better off
Without European microdicks making your economic decisions for you, that includes your immigration policies made by a German. East German at that.

The whole idea of E.U. is to create an economic force that can challenge the economic power of the United States. And what you get are layers of government that drain your economy without adding anything worthwhile, controlling every g.d. picayune aspect of your lives. Focusing on the shape and color of your bananas, the wattage of your electric appliances, the form of your energy, the price of your oil, etc. and all this from, frankly, unworthy agencies. It was a great idea, but you ceded to much control to entities who do not have your best interests at heart.

You'll be able to deal with United States much more cleanly with their ridiculous interference. (We laugh at them daily.)

The analogy of shitting the bed is rejected. Typical reversed horseshit. Brexiters are changing the sheets, the remainders are shitting the bed.

There's a word for it. We have their type here. Quite a lot of them actually. Oikophobes. Oddly, with more faith in gigantic overweening government interfering in their lives, layered and remote, than they have in their own immediate personal agency.

But honestly, this is actually none of my business. I'm simply observing. Got no dog in this fight. But good work on leaving those assholes. Don't worry about the bed shitting remainders. They're licking their wounds. They're resentful you've taken their rice bowls away. Now they'll have to think of something productive to do to make their fortunes. Something other than sucking your tits dry.
 (I helped save b3ta! kombu dashi, Mon 21 May 2018, 1:20, , Reply)