b3ta.com links
You are not logged in. Login or Signup
Home » links » Link 931019 | Random (Thread)

This is a normal post Perhaps I'm showing a little ignorance here
but aren't referendums a good thing? If they just went ahead and pulled out (or indeed, stayed in) the EU regardless of the public opinion, wouldn't that cause massive uproar?

I hate Cameron, and I'm definitely not a Tory, but I can't quite grasp why asking the public what they want in this matter is a bad thing.
 (I helped save b3ta! Fork Has lost his bash virginity!, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Because democracy is only wanted when people vote the right way.
And can't be trusted with the important matters.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post ^ Exactly this
The biggest issue with democracy is that there are far more idiots in the world than geniuses.

Genghis Khan had the right idea.
 (I helped save b3ta! Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post No, for a couple of reasons.
First, they're unnecessary: the constitution of the UK has it that it's the job of Parliament to represent the people. A referendum undermines that. (As several people on Twitter have said, it's odd that the very people who bang on about the EU's threat to Parliamentary sovereignty are those who're proposing a referendum that amounts to the same.)

Second, how often should there be a referendum, if you think that one is a good idea? If it's a good idea today, then why not next week as well? Every day, maybe, because people's minds may have changed.

Third - and similarly - why not on every subject? If it's a good idea in relation to x, why not y?

Fourth - and this relates back to the first - is it really certain that an appeal to the bare majority of the electorate is the best way to decide things? It's not at all a given that most people have the expertese to make a wise decision - something like an EU treaty is enormously complicated, and is well beyond just about everyone as an individual, so it's not clear that we'd get a particularly good result. Again, that's why there're armies of civil servants paid to write treaties and implement them, and to inform policy. It's massively complicated.

Oh, one last thing: pulling out of the EU would make things more difficult for UK businesses, simply because they'd still be bound by EU law if they wanted to sell in the Union - it's just that they'd not get a seat at the table.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post We would have to renegotiate a shit load of trade agreements too, which will cost money
And thats going to be some interesting negotiations. It would be like some one unilaterally pulling their investment out of a business, butting it at risk, then expecting to still be able to use the office space and the company perks...
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post Nicely put!

(I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 11:48, , Reply)
This is a normal post And here I was expected a "wanker" or "prick" response.
That was well written and clearly explained what I didn't understand about it.

Thanks for that.


Can we be friends?
 (I helped save b3ta! Fork Has lost his bash virginity!, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post Wanker.
I'd hate to leave your expectations in tatters.
:)
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 11:54, , Reply)
This is a normal post Completely logical and pragmatic points made there.
This referendum issue is so complicated and as are the implications of an 'out' vote that I'm not confident that all of us who haven't read and understood all of these EU treaties, and those of us who are not knowledgeable in economics, should really vote in matters of such far reaching importance.

I just don't trust the sweet words of Bill Cash or or the simplistic answers that Nigel Farange offers.
 (pissflaps. FSPW, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post So what rights should a citizen have towards self determination?

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post The rights we have at the moment seem to have worked well for a long time.

(pissflaps. FSPW, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 11:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post I read most of the Lisbon Treaty
I'm guessing they left the interesting, controversial stuff to the end. I couldn't see anything in it that fundamentally changed our Sovereignty... You'll be happy to hear I've got a bit of a life since then.. ;)
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 10:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post And the biggest risk being that if people aren't 100% happy with the status quo
they will assume the grass is greener on the other side

(although have you seen French grass? It's well shit)
 (I helped save b3ta! A Rory Borealis here under duress, Wed 23 Jan 2013, 13:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post Fuck that
I barely trust the general public to vote for an MP let alone something that is actually important. Too many idiots that wouldn't understand in/out let alone the reasons for asking.
 (I helped save b3ta! slartifartfast When all around are losing their heads, duck., Wed 23 Jan 2013, 17:52, , Reply)