Blame culture
I'm not a daily mail reader but I'm starting to suspect I think like one...

50 years ago, people worked hard to get the things they needed (not wanted), looked after things and didn't expect handouts. You were lucky if you got anywhere near the idea of owning your home and you expected to work every hour of your job to justify the wage.

Seems that todays news is dominated by the tragic news that the prime minister thinks that the under 25's shouldn't automatically qualify for benefits. A country where people expect the state to provide for them a council house and a weekly bursary to pay their cost of living, without anything so inconvenient as working for it.

The government blames the previous government for the situation, yet the previous government blames the current one for the changes they make. Meanwhile those paying their taxes complain they can't afford to makes ends meet, and those living from the state complain they can't be expected to pay taxes.

I love the fact that Britain has always taken care of it's citizens. We're not one of the nations we see in the news that will gas the population in the night and leave people to die from starvation.

Yet I hate the fact that Britain has to take care of it's citizens to such an extent that many are expectant to do nothing and live off the state.

I agree with the benefits system, its there to protect and help the most vulnerable among us. Yet increasingly it's abused and exploited to provide for those who blame society for their predicament.

The lines between capitalism and communism seem to be getting blurred and I question if the country can still be fixed.

Is it too much to ask that everyone just tries to do their bit to contribute and help themselves?
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 15:00, 36 replies)

Yes, benefits are great so long as no one is entitled to any.
You pillock.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 15:28, closed)

You've completely missed my point
People SHOULD be entitled to benefits, but not for an unwillingness to do anything and an expectation that their every cost of living be met for them.

I'd love to hear any justification why the 18yr old who lives next to me gets about £80 a week to sit at home playing computer games and sleeping until midday while another neighbour works a 40 hour week, pays council tax, PAYE, national insurance then after childcare bills has less than that to feed her whole family?
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 16:01, closed)

Just a rough guess,
but maybe he can't get a job?
Not to worry, though, our beloved leaders are soon to ensure that no one under 25 can have any benefits, so if you can persuade his parents to kick him out over the winter, there's a good chance that he can freeze to death, and stop being a burden to us all.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 16:51, closed)

Yes he can
because I gave him a job.

After 2 weeks he found he didn't like getting out of bed before midday and stopped showing up, so I gave the job to someone else. Like I said, some people just don't like having to work for a living.
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 17:12, closed)

Maybe he'd have developed a better work ethic if he'd got started early in life?
If only some graduate hadn't gone around, hoovering up all the local paper rounds.

Seriously, though, he's 18. Plenty of people have a shitty attitude at that age.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 19:47, closed)

And your generalisation about the attitudes and experience of millions of people is based on that alone?
(tomegranate, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 20:16, closed)

I love how they assume everyone under 25 has parents who are able and willing to be mooched off eight years past the legal working age
it'll be a real kick in the teeth to anyone who's worked ever since they left school and finds themselves being made redundant

still, people like that are hardly likely to support the Tories, so they can go fuck themselves
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 20:56, closed)

The mistake we're all making is being born into families that can't guarantee a substantial inheritance.
Selective breeding, and the replacement of the working class with robots, is clearly the answer.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 4 Oct 2013, 0:06, closed)

but who'll maintain the robots?
you'd have to have a lot of specially trained fitters and engineers - in other words, skilled workers, exactly the kind of people who'd form unions, earn a lot more money than resentful Daily Mail reading office monkeys and generally cause trouble!

no, the definitive answer is to scrap all industry (it's too complicated and expensive to maintain anyway), return to a feudal society and undo 500 years of social progress along the way
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Fri 4 Oct 2013, 0:16, closed)

Self-sustaining, self-aware robots.
What could possibly go wrong?
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 4 Oct 2013, 10:31, closed)

if you can get around Gödel's incompleteness theorem
(i.e. that any logical system can be complete or fully consistent, but not both), very little

if you can get around that, you'll have solved one of the biggest fundamental problems of artificial intelligence - but until then, true AI is nothing more than science fiction
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Sun 6 Oct 2013, 0:56, closed)

I guess you were lucky
That you could leave school at 15 and walk into an apprenticeship...
(squigbobble existed, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 15:48, closed)

I'm not that old. I left school in the 90's jobs were hard to come by so I worked at any adhoc work I could to get by while I taught myself a skill that eventually got me employed.

While I could have just signed on I didn't as I felt duty bound to try and sort myself out.
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 15:55, closed)

I invite other b3tans to postulate on what that skill might be.
Meanwhile, I:
Left school in 2001
Went to Uni
Noticed that halfway through my course all the entry level jobs for my field got outsourced to India
Graduated
Got a job at Mecca Bingo in Bradford and was working there 300yds away from where Sharon Beshinevsky got shot at the time she got shot while simultaneously being smoked like a kipper by the nicotine addicted clientele
Just missed the the house price boom really taking off
Managed to find a vaguely degree related entry level job 6 months after graduating
Boomeranged back to my parent's attic after my housemates all entered relationships as I couldn't afford to rent alone and had nobody else to houseshare with at short notice
Finished paying off my student loan 2.5 years after graduating

...and I'm now watching house prices rise faster than my wage. I think I'll just stay in my parent's attic and use my slice of their house as a deposit when they die, if it isn't swallowed by care costs. I'll probably be about 50 then.

On the upside, compared to the current unemployment rates I pretty much walked into a job after Uni.
(squigbobble existed, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 16:42, closed)

So maybe ask yourself, what can you do to help yourself?

Sounds like you've been happy to sit in a rut and wait for things to improve.

I can assure you a lot of us have been there too.

Took me years to repay student debts, had to move back in with my parents when I was 31 to ensure I could afford to meet my cost of living etc.

At one point I left the UK and got employment overseas as there was an employment shortage there and no work here, it turned out that changed my life as I returned to the UK with relevant employment experience I couldn't get in the UK and have had no problem finding work ever since.

Bottom line if you sit there expecting someone to feed you the solution to all your troubles you'll probably never get anywhere. Instead be willing to take a risk and work hard and you'll never look back.

On the otherhand it's probably easier to blame living in your parents attic on other factors, like your friends relationships.

I'm not taking the piss or having a go at you, just hoping you'll open your eyes and realise if you put the effort in you can get where you want to be.
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 17:01, closed)

Should probably mention that I'm still in my parent's attic...
...'cos my dad is demented and my mother's arthritic so I've now got 2 dependants of a sort :/ But yeah, I've had a fairly easy start and I'm in a rut but I'm not waiting for or expecting anything.

Besides, I like moaning about stuff.
(squigbobble existed, Fri 4 Oct 2013, 10:45, closed)

Fuck Me!
Without going into pythonesque "I 'ad it 'ard" rant, you've had a massively privileged start to life mate.

Now stop your self pitying, entitled moaning and do something with your advantages.
(Brigadier an old boot sitting on a man's face - forever, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 19:28, closed)

and they think people in Somalia have it bad

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 20:57, closed)

The trouble is
people can only contribute and work for themselves if there are jobs. If I had shit qualifications and the best I could do was get a zero hours contract in a supermarket which paid so little that I'd be, in effect, a few quid better off for a week's work after I'd covered the cost of transport, childcare, etc., then I'd probably rather stay at home and watch Jeremy Kyle as well. and the reality is that even if I wanted to go for the job, there aren't enough of them around. There have been news stories recently of average retail jobs in Costa and companies like that receiving hundreds of applicants.

Also, what do you propose we do about the fact that the vast majority of the benefits bill is for pensioners? The dole really isn't costing you as an individual as much as you probably think.
(SnowyTheWereRabbit the Leporid from Hell, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 16:33, closed)

Burn the elderly for fuel!

( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 16:52, closed)

SOYLENT GREY IS OLD PEOPLE!

( Colonel Boris "...a desperate Buzzfeed imitation...", Thu 3 Oct 2013, 17:00, closed)

There is work.
When I was out of work but had a degree I didn't turn down work because it didn't suit me. I worked nightshifts warehouses, delivered the local paper, anything to get by.

Believe me there is work there, I know because I'm an employer and can't find reliable staff who can actually show up and work when required.

Ok, there may not be the work you want on your doorstep, but as I mentioned already sometimes you have to look elsewhere - for me that was on the other side of the planet.
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 17:10, closed)

Is there anybody other than yourself...
...and people who lived through WW2 who aren't/weren't slacking off in the jobs market?

The world must have its answer.
(squigbobble existed, Mon 7 Oct 2013, 14:18, closed)

You were always going to get a rough ride posting this but I agree.
A lot of the Jeremy Kyle chav culture keep shitting out babies, getting free housing and spending their benefits on cider and weed.
( GeordieJay Bummers are deaf, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 17:28, closed)

i expected a rough ride for my comments
But when you think about it is anything I've said unreasonable?

My viewpoint; that if you want something, whether it's a roof over your head, food to eat or a new car you should be willing to put in the effort to justify having it and never sit and blame your lack of such things on things you were unwilling to change for yourself.
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 17:35, closed)

The problem is our benefits system was designed for, and by, a more socialist age in which people believed that Doing Work was honourable and dignified and that even the most menial and backbreaking of physical tasks actually made the worker a better person.

Its something I continue to believe which is why I've never claimed any benefits other than the use of the NHS so far in my life

Its sadly an outdated viewpoint.
(Carpe Cyprinidae, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 18:24, closed)

I'd take issue with the notion that "the state owes me a living" is the default attitude for the majority of the population.

( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 19:54, closed)

It's classic "divide and rule" politics, and the Tories are damn good at it
To the point where when people were polled on "what percentage of benefits are claimed fraudulently" the answer given was 38%. The real answer is 0.5%

See also, single mothers, the disabled (including all the ones shoved onto invalidity benefit to get them off the "unemployment" figures), unions, the miners, etc, etc.
Every politician has to have demons to point at to make those at the bottom feel smug about themselves so they won't notice those at the top bum-raping them for money and power.
(katie hopkins telling it where its at, Thu 3 Oct 2013, 20:14, closed)

^ This.
I reserve my hate for the political elite, as I'm yet to be convinced that they are anything other than "them".
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 4 Oct 2013, 0:08, closed)

That's
Just what they want you to think.
(immadme, Sat 5 Oct 2013, 10:24, closed)

sometimes those who should be helping - dont.
Myself & the missus take in teenagers (16+) who have nowehere to live (either come up through the care system and are now to old, can't live with family or whatever). This system is partially funded by income support. A few years ago, one of them was a 16 year old boy. He was going to school (part of the condition of being in this scheme is they must be in education or working). During the summer holidays we suggested he gets himself a holiday job (newpsaper round/mcdonalds). He mentioned this to his care worker who then told him not to do that as he would lose his benefits!!!! What a life lesson that was.
(mcvpjd3 Has no Board Sig yet, Mon 7 Oct 2013, 17:10, closed)

(sigh)
Alas the majority of the welfare bill is going to pensions and benefits paid to _People who are in full time eployment_

Yes folks. That's people who are already working at least a 40 hour week and are paid so little that they still qualify for state benefits.

So, 15 seconds not so serious though reveals that The Taxpayer(tm) is subsidising companies to provide below subsistence level wages.
Or, with the delightful workfare scheme, no wages at all.
Jolly wonderful for the companies wot wot!

I'm all for people working for a living, and find the idea that someone who could be doing a productive job should be paid to sit around on their arse all day abhorent.
But that's not how it goes.
Example:
One of the cleaners at Best Beloved's college is having trouble with the DWP. Because the wages she's paid, plus the benefits she receives do not cover the cost of her travel to work and the childcare she has to pay for in order to be able to work full time.
She's losing money by being in a job.

If she resigns, her benefits are removed and she has no income.
If she's fired, her benefits are removed and she has no income.
If she refused the job when it was offered, her benefits would be removed and she has no income.

The DWP people she's spoken to about this have replied with variations on the theme of "That is not our concern. You have employment. Be grateful!"

She's currently trying to persaude the college to make her redundant or cut her hours so she can afford to eat.

That. Ladies, gentlemen and bridge denizens, is fucked up.
( DukeEuphoria Comes highly reccomended, Fri 4 Oct 2013, 11:47, closed)

Yeah it's infuriating, people should really think carefully about whether they can afford to have children before they go and get pregnant and then complain about how expensive childcare and feeding them and everything else is.

(AWESOMEB0T meddling prick, Fri 4 Oct 2013, 15:38, closed)

Oi
Back under yer bridge...
( DukeEuphoria Comes highly reccomended, Tue 8 Oct 2013, 15:27, closed)

What pisses me off is the notion that is rearing its ugly heads again amongst the political elitist scum
Or politicians as they prefer to be called that people on benefits should be made to work in their community in order to recieve said benefits.
By definition if there is work that requires doing shouldn't this be done as a job that pays at least minimum wage?
(andythepieman Is surfing the waves of indifference on, Wed 9 Oct 2013, 12:24, closed)

Sounds like a good idea to me
I agree, if there is work that needs doing then offer pay to get it done. My only upset is with the notion of expecting pay for doing nothing.
(golddust QOTW now revolves around being a cunt, Thu 10 Oct 2013, 10:36, closed)