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This is a question Prejudice

"Are you prejudiced?" asks StapMyVitals. Have you been a victim of prejudice? Are you a columnist for a popular daily newspaper? Don't bang on about how you never judge people on first impressions - no-one will believe you.

(, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:53)
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The Middle Classes
The basis of Middle Class culture is proving that your better than the other Middle Class people. That is why they are all such wankers. It's all about one-upmanship about shit that doesn't matter.

The Middle Classes invented Etiquette. They're the ones that make snide comments about people who use the wrong fork. FOR FUCKSAKE.

You know that crap on wine about 'hints of leather, sandalwood and a soucon of bitumen' etc. They make that shit up. All wine tastes like fermented grapes. It's self-delusion.

They're the ones who make up stupid rules like not ending a sentence in a preposition. Completely and utterly arbitrary rule, that no-one even knew existed until they invented it.

They invented the fucking Apostrophe and then formed societies for its preservation. They put an 's' in island. They fucked up the English language with their mangled latin words. These are the same people who have the gall to complain about 'americanisation', as if they hadn't corrupted the language infinitely more.

They have to watch 'important' films, read 'good' books, go to the theatre, They don't really enjoy these films or books or theatre, it's just so that they can go on about how good/important/obscure it was and how they are better than you because they have more culture.

They have to live in the right house, in the 'right' suburb, with the right furniture, and send their kids to private schools (HAHAHAHA what a scam that is).

I hate them and their culture. They are a bunch of self-deluded twunts.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:16, closed)
this is satirical, yes?

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:20, closed)
If you have to ask... must be Middle Class scum. So confused by thinking that Shakespeare is the new Quentin Tarrantino, that you can't tell parody from satire from Holly Oaks.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:38, closed)
well, that's me pegged
well done you.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:41, closed)
I refer my learned colleague
to my previous post
Make of it what you will.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:45, closed)
The "s" in "island" wasn't put there by the middle classes...I believe it sneaked in from the french hundreds of years ago (possibly in 1066, for example?)
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:22, closed)
It was those upper class tossers, not us.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:29, closed)
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:38, closed)
Don't get me started on the Norman invasion...
how many Normans do you think there were compared to the willing middle class traitors aping their styles and language? No, this lies squarely at the feet of the middle class. The ruling class couldn't give a fuck about this kind of thing.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:36, closed)
Shush it povvo.

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:25, closed)
Also it's "You're better than", NOT "your better than."
Get on the train you filthy Grammar-Jew.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:33, closed)
fucking peasants

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:28, closed)
When I was at university "Common People" by Plup was riding high in the hit parade, and it was fun to see all the little ones trying to out-working class each other.

See also Peter Kay's target audience, and those who watch The Royle Family and proudly say "That's JUST what my family's like! It's so true!".

It's a sort of class equivalent to "Is it 'cos I is black?"
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:33, closed)
Common people was a dig at the middle class.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:37, closed)
Yes, I know.
Hence every twat and his brother trying desperately to out-working clas each other, and thus feel superior to the middle classes.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:09, closed)
Well that's alright then

(, Thu 8 Apr 2010, 3:03, closed)
When you say ' They fucked up the English language with their mangled latin words.'
Are you just confusing the middle classes with the Romans perhaps?
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:36, closed)
What have they ever done for us?

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:39, closed)
apart from the roads, sanitation, order...

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:41, closed)
'twas the Grammar schools.
The bulk of our neo-classical twattery is down to spotty yoofs of yore not understanding latin. fwiw, them Romans never spoke Latin.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:41, closed)
So all those Latin inscriptions on Roman coins, temples, monuments and stuff from Roman times are all faked then?
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:45, closed)
perhaps I overstate it.
Latin as used in the post-classical era was far removed from the language that Romans spoke. By time literary Latin appears in significance in the historical record, it was already removed from the spoken language, Vulgar Latin. Historically, it is not unusual for literary languages to diverge significantly from their spoken counter parts.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:51, closed)
Fair enough.
And good point, well made.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:54, closed)
Most of Latin-based words in English come via Norman French and not directly from the Romans.

As you say - the largest body of Latin literature dates to the post-Roman age (Merovingian/Lombardic? periods in Gaul/Italia).

Use of Latin was anacronistic in late Roman times in Britain though - the version spoken here was `purer' than that of the continent. The language changed spellings (such as `ph' changing to `f' and grammar flattened out.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:04, closed)
spoke Greek mainly didn't they?

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:48, closed)
The Roman in the street did
I think the intelligensia and ruling classes spoke Latin
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:59, closed)
In Roman culture Greek was what you spoke to show how educated you were (in the same way that Latin is to us in the modern world). It was the language of philosophy, culture and art. The state language was Latin though.

In fact it remained Latin - even after the fall of the Western Empire. Latin was the official language in the Eastern/Byzantine Empire that survived another millenia and was only replaced by Greek in 620AD (150 years after Rome itself had fell) by Heraclius.

Before that even though every man and his canis spoke Greek the government and army continued to use Greek.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:08, closed)
all those historians must have it terribly wrong
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:50, closed)
and what class do you think they are?
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:52, closed)
working class naturally
the middle-class doesn't care about anything other than the Jonses of course.

Edit: I wasn't aware jobs had classes
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:56, closed)
Neo-classical Latin, true, they didn't speak that.
They were more like to speak something called the Vulgate, or the language of the common people (plebs).
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:53, closed)
That answer
deserves a click
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:58, closed)

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:34, closed)
cheese and wine parties are bollocks
The wine may have different subtle flavours, but once you've had a bit of any cheese whatsoever, your tastebuds are overpowered and any wine afterwards all tastes the same.

Anyone telling you otherwise is deserving of a clip around the ear.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:37, closed)
Right on
I once had some Stilton that made my wine taste like Ribena.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 16:00, closed)
Well it isn't satire
but it does sound rather bitter. Have some wine and cheese, and cheer yourself up by seeing if you can spot the faint vanilla aroma :)
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 14:55, closed)
Damn straight I'm bitter.
Nothing in my cellar is drinkable until 2012.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:02, closed)
and by cellar
I mean wine fridge.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:02, closed)
and by drinkable
I mean, that's what the man at the winery told me when I bought it after tasting 17 glasses of their finest, in the correct order, with the swirling and the sniffing, and the sucking in of the air.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:06, closed)
There was a neurological study on people a while ago that proved that more expensive wine tastes better.
It was something like a group of people tasted 2 identical bottles of wine, one of which they were told was lowish in price, say £4,99, and the other expensive, £24,99. Not only did all the testers express a preference for the most expensive bottle but scans of their brain activity actually showed they physically experienced more pleasure when drinking the pricier bottle.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:22, closed)
Oh good God.
Etiquette was first invented to make sure people wouldn't shit on the table and put their elbows in other people's dinner. Society, in order to function, needs rules. Etiquette is merely part of this. It's the reason why it is frowned on to play music loudly from mobile phones, why we use cutlery (more efficient than using hands) and forms part of the national identity. There are many, many other reasons for this, but I'm not going to go into them as I have neither the time nor the energy.

Secondly, you are so wrong about the language like you wouldn't believe. Were it not for the introduction of Norman French after the 1066 invasion, and the introduction of punctuation, the language would sound more akin to Dutch, and sentences would run together, making it very difficult to understand the written language.

As for hints of tastes in wine, that is caused by the grapevine taking up chemicals in the soil itself which then ends up in the grape juice, which is further accentuated by fermenting. A basic knowledge of the subject would tell you about that. Before you insult or deride something, at least do some basic research.

Yes, I'm middle class. No, I don't complain about Americanisation of the language, or watch important films or read good books. I go for stuff that interests me. And how do you know that these people whom you so clearly despise don't actually enjoy these films, books and TV shows? A lot of people liked Avatar- so do I. Just because you dislike something on a visceral level doesn't mean it is shit, you need to justify why it is shit with particular reasons, that can be verified, even if it is only your own opinion. Being middle class doesn't mean you have to follow the same road as everyone else. And it isn't a question of living in the right area or sending your kids to the right school. I think I can safely say all people want to live in an area with little to no crime, sit on sofas that are comfortable, with tables and chairs that last, and send their kids to a school that has good results, irrespective of whether they are state or private schools.

You may hate the middle classes and what they stand for. But I would wager that it is you who is the self-deluded twunt, spouting off a barely researched rant which borders on the ill-informed, if not idiotic.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:21, closed)
thank you for proving my point

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:42, closed)
Proving... how?

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:50, closed)

(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 16:04, closed)
No, I'm asking you to prove your point.
At least I've actually backed up my points with verifiable answers.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 16:14, closed)
You are
Citizen Smith
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:30, closed)
When I worked in restaurants
I found that I could blag wine tasting with the best of them. I agree with you on that point - a large proportion of wine tasting is a bit silly.

You sound rather angry though. Don't get upset by etiquette.
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 15:50, closed)
Something that I read in the paper recently sums it up perfectly those doubters who feel etiquette is an aristocratic anachronism, Martin has some well-chosen words. “It is a perversion to think etiquette is anything to do with snobbery,” she says. “Etiquette is simply about showing consideration towards others"...

(c) The Times
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 16:19, closed)
Fermented Grape Juice
I agree that the "subtle undercurrent of wet suede" level of tasting is taking it too far, but surely you can tell that some taste sweeter, heavier, fruitier or just plain nicer than others? Still, I can't help but agree with you in thinking Oz Clarke is put on the telly so that pretentious people can take notes on the kind of things they ought to say about wine to look knowledgeable.

Oh, and it's spelt 'soupçon,' you bloody commoner...
(, Wed 7 Apr 2010, 16:36, closed)

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