Oh, don't be such a fucking spastic.
You really are acting like a pathetic, spoilt brat. You're happy 30,000+ people each year are killed by guns in your country, as long as you get your toys to play with?
You stupid fucking selfish cunt.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:04, Share, Reply)
You really are acting like a pathetic, spoilt brat. You're happy 30,000+ people each year are killed by guns in your country, as long as you get your toys to play with?
You stupid fucking selfish cunt.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:04, Share, Reply)
You make a lot of assumptions in your rage. This started because white, middle class people were killed. Why are you not angry when thousands of black men, women and children are killed?
Why were you not outraged when the current US administration allowed assault rifles into Mexico, resulting in the deaths of thousands of brown skinned people and at least one federal agent?
Why are you not outraged that over 500 homicides happened in Chicago last year, to a majority of black victims, but also a place with the strictest of gun control?
You can fester and spew all you want. And you really cross a line when you accuse me of liking death. You would not survive a moment where I grew up. Yes, my life has been saved more than once by a gun. But the gangs and cartels will not disarm, no matter how many times you weep or wring your hands.
Selfish.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:13, Share, Reply)
Why were you not outraged when the current US administration allowed assault rifles into Mexico, resulting in the deaths of thousands of brown skinned people and at least one federal agent?
Why are you not outraged that over 500 homicides happened in Chicago last year, to a majority of black victims, but also a place with the strictest of gun control?
You can fester and spew all you want. And you really cross a line when you accuse me of liking death. You would not survive a moment where I grew up. Yes, my life has been saved more than once by a gun. But the gangs and cartels will not disarm, no matter how many times you weep or wring your hands.
Selfish.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:13, Share, Reply)
impressive introduction of the race card to try and deflect the argument
I think you'll find the general desire to remove guns is not referring to taking away rich Caucasian folks guns, but all guns, irrespective of colour of owner
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:16, Share, Reply)
I think you'll find the general desire to remove guns is not referring to taking away rich Caucasian folks guns, but all guns, irrespective of colour of owner
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:16, Share, Reply)
My point is that where the most murders with guns happen are places where guns are illegal.
Maybe we should give the mother of a kid trying to avoid gangs the opportunity to prevent a home invasion that leaves her son dead and her raped.
You may not care about race, but I certainly do. Black men are disproportionately victims of homicide. The media seems to ignore such murders unless a white person is involved.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:21, Share, Reply)
Maybe we should give the mother of a kid trying to avoid gangs the opportunity to prevent a home invasion that leaves her son dead and her raped.
You may not care about race, but I certainly do. Black men are disproportionately victims of homicide. The media seems to ignore such murders unless a white person is involved.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:21, Share, Reply)
more race based distraction tactics, you clearly don't have a leg to stand on
what if it was a white kid avoiding a white gang home invasion
How big a gun should that child be entitled to to defend himself against lets say 5 imaginary intruders?
What if the kids attacking only have knives? should the kid put the gun away first or should he give them guns too to make things even?
What if the kids attacking don't enter the property but shoot at it with a rocket launcher, should the poor kid (black or white) get government funding for anti rocket defences and maybe some rpgs of his own?
the solution is remove them all, not give out more.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:26, Share, Reply)
what if it was a white kid avoiding a white gang home invasion
How big a gun should that child be entitled to to defend himself against lets say 5 imaginary intruders?
What if the kids attacking only have knives? should the kid put the gun away first or should he give them guns too to make things even?
What if the kids attacking don't enter the property but shoot at it with a rocket launcher, should the poor kid (black or white) get government funding for anti rocket defences and maybe some rpgs of his own?
the solution is remove them all, not give out more.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:26, Share, Reply)
Race is not a distraction. Look at the statistics: non-whites suffer most. May not mean anything to you.
Why should anyone, black or white, have to suffer the trauma of a home invasion? If someone is using a knife, that is lethal force. I would shoot him because if you're trying to kill, you don't get to determine the response. (It's like the old movies where the tough guy got beat up by a karate dude and said that kicking was "girlie". The best practice is not to mess with another human to make yourself look tough or you could end up dead).
Again, if you can remove all guns from the world, guarantee that the cartels and gangs are disarmed and that the currently porous borders of the US will not allow any further gun transfers from profiteers in other countries, then we have a starting point.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:33, Share, Reply)
Why should anyone, black or white, have to suffer the trauma of a home invasion? If someone is using a knife, that is lethal force. I would shoot him because if you're trying to kill, you don't get to determine the response. (It's like the old movies where the tough guy got beat up by a karate dude and said that kicking was "girlie". The best practice is not to mess with another human to make yourself look tough or you could end up dead).
Again, if you can remove all guns from the world, guarantee that the cartels and gangs are disarmed and that the currently porous borders of the US will not allow any further gun transfers from profiteers in other countries, then we have a starting point.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:33, Share, Reply)
but almost all (if not all) of these guns are made in the United States.
the US has something like half of all the world's guns.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:37, Share, Reply)
the US has something like half of all the world's guns.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:37, Share, Reply)
Actually, the talking clock told me that arms are made all over
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_armament_manufacturers
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:42, Share, Reply)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_armament_manufacturers
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:42, Share, Reply)
But the guns that do the most damage among the cartels are not manufactured in either Canada or Mexico
Usually China, Bulgaria, or some other AK 47 hotspot.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:49, Share, Reply)
Usually China, Bulgaria, or some other AK 47 hotspot.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:49, Share, Reply)
I'm trying to find out. I got this so far:
Is gun theft a part of the illegal gun problem?
Yes, gun theft is one of the ways guns are diverted to the illegal market. The ATF reports that over 13,000 guns are lost or stolen from dealers nationwide each year. Estimates show that as many as 32% of crime guns are acquired through theft.5 6
www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/about/faq.shtml
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:57, Share, Reply)
Is gun theft a part of the illegal gun problem?
Yes, gun theft is one of the ways guns are diverted to the illegal market. The ATF reports that over 13,000 guns are lost or stolen from dealers nationwide each year. Estimates show that as many as 32% of crime guns are acquired through theft.5 6
www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/about/faq.shtml
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:57, Share, Reply)
"According to ATF data, 70 percent of firearms recovered and traced in drug cartel crimes in Mexico originated from the United States."
www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/may/29/jim-moran/jim-moran-says-70-percent-traced-firearms-mexican-/
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:12, Share, Reply)
www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/may/29/jim-moran/jim-moran-says-70-percent-traced-firearms-mexican-/
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:12, Share, Reply)
Probably already been posted here
Fancy graphic thing showing trade routes for guns and ammo
workshop.chromeexperiments.com/projects/armsglobe/?ModPagespeed=noscript
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:45, Share, Reply)
Fancy graphic thing showing trade routes for guns and ammo
workshop.chromeexperiments.com/projects/armsglobe/?ModPagespeed=noscript
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:45, Share, Reply)
www.chrome.com
It is import/export. Useful for that purpose.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:50, Share, Reply)
It is import/export. Useful for that purpose.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:50, Share, Reply)
There are some compelling stats which indicate this works both ways
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Characteristics_of_offenders
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:44, Share, Reply)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Characteristics_of_offenders
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:44, Share, Reply)
Be careful, bringing up race might make someone doubt your sanity.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:45, Share, Reply)
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:45, Share, Reply)
Honestly I doubt my sanity posting that
...but the crime problems being highlighted (victim OR perpetrator) are because of deprivation and lack of opportunity ... not of race.
It just so happens that due to social ills and long-standing inequalities in the US (and UK) that non-whites are more likely to be born into deprivation and poverty.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:49, Share, Reply)
...but the crime problems being highlighted (victim OR perpetrator) are because of deprivation and lack of opportunity ... not of race.
It just so happens that due to social ills and long-standing inequalities in the US (and UK) that non-whites are more likely to be born into deprivation and poverty.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:49, Share, Reply)
There are tomes written on that.
The claimed solutions for the social ills have only seemed to worsen the problem.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:52, Share, Reply)
The claimed solutions for the social ills have only seemed to worsen the problem.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:52, Share, Reply)
You can mock, but I am active in my community and have worked in government to attempt to change it.
I harbor no illusion that my efforts are small, but I keep working at it.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:57, Share, Reply)
I harbor no illusion that my efforts are small, but I keep working at it.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:57, Share, Reply)
Well good luck to you,
I don't want to disparage your efforts and I think we in the UK lead relatively sheltered lives and don't really appreciate the sort of fear you encounter every day, nevertheless I don't think "more guns" is the answer to any of these problems.
As your lot say, "guns don't kill people, people do," well, that's true, they kill people WITH guns though, but I suppose ultimately it's poverty and broken society that kills people.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:02, Share, Reply)
I don't want to disparage your efforts and I think we in the UK lead relatively sheltered lives and don't really appreciate the sort of fear you encounter every day, nevertheless I don't think "more guns" is the answer to any of these problems.
As your lot say, "guns don't kill people, people do," well, that's true, they kill people WITH guns though, but I suppose ultimately it's poverty and broken society that kills people.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:02, Share, Reply)
Well thats because the solutions always come from outside the affected communities
If "Da Man" has fucked you over your entire life why would you listen to "Da Man" when he says he has a solution to "your" problem
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:56, Share, Reply)
If "Da Man" has fucked you over your entire life why would you listen to "Da Man" when he says he has a solution to "your" problem
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:56, Share, Reply)
I tell you what they should do,
the next time they just print a shedload of money to give to the banks for being rubbish banks, they should just give it to poor people instead. They want more consumer spending, don't they?
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:09, Share, Reply)
the next time they just print a shedload of money to give to the banks for being rubbish banks, they should just give it to poor people instead. They want more consumer spending, don't they?
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:09, Share, Reply)
But you're not allowed to help them out of it,
because that would be COMMUNISM.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:53, Share, Reply)
because that would be COMMUNISM.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:53, Share, Reply)
dude
that's fucking lame. you're desperately trying to build a strawman by hinting that happytoast is racist. get a fucking grip. disagree with people but use proper arguments. you're an intelligent man and ought to know better
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:53, Share, Reply)
that's fucking lame. you're desperately trying to build a strawman by hinting that happytoast is racist. get a fucking grip. disagree with people but use proper arguments. you're an intelligent man and ought to know better
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:53, Share, Reply)
Hey, Handsome! He tried to imply <i>I</i> was racist FIRST.
But oh no, I'm not a mod, so I'm just ignored....*sniff*
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 18:16, Share, Reply)
But oh no, I'm not a mod, so I'm just ignored....*sniff*
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 18:16, Share, Reply)
hey sweet cheeks
you're a massive racist so it was less of a deal...
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 23:19, Share, Reply)
you're a massive racist so it was less of a deal...
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 23:19, Share, Reply)
Sweet jeesus.
What has gang-avoidance got to do with anything? How does a made-up example establish any point of principle?
And, yes: black men are disproportionately the victims of homicide, and the press is much more bothered by dead white people. That's worrying. But it's also unclear why it's relevant here.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:32, Share, Reply)
What has gang-avoidance got to do with anything? How does a made-up example establish any point of principle?
And, yes: black men are disproportionately the victims of homicide, and the press is much more bothered by dead white people. That's worrying. But it's also unclear why it's relevant here.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:32, Share, Reply)
Who says it's made up?
I've been challenged many times; I've worked with many inner city youths who were fighting either to get out or stay out of gangs.
I've walked home with many to make sure they made it in their front door. Come visit, I can show you.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:35, Share, Reply)
I've been challenged many times; I've worked with many inner city youths who were fighting either to get out or stay out of gangs.
I've walked home with many to make sure they made it in their front door. Come visit, I can show you.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:35, Share, Reply)
*Gets suspicious*
How old were these inner city "youths"? :)
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:58, Share, Reply)
How old were these inner city "youths"? :)
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:58, Share, Reply)
You sure it is not a wealth/class rather than a race thing?
Do impoverished white people get good media coverage?
America has a big racial wealth gap, so black/poor could look similar statistically.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:34, Share, Reply)
Do impoverished white people get good media coverage?
America has a big racial wealth gap, so black/poor could look similar statistically.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:34, Share, Reply)
dunno
maybe they should just mandate that all guns be pink and sparkly, see how many people still want to look hard on the streets carrying one.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:23, Share, Reply)
maybe they should just mandate that all guns be pink and sparkly, see how many people still want to look hard on the streets carrying one.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:23, Share, Reply)
I like this picture, the guy at the back steals it:
files.redux.com/images/d96c3da92c2fe0f36585ec1a9be59752/raw
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:32, Share, Reply)
files.redux.com/images/d96c3da92c2fe0f36585ec1a9be59752/raw
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:32, Share, Reply)
My emotional reaction is to put a lot of blame on easy-to-buy guns,
but the data I've seen does seem to suggest violent crime is far more to do with poverty.
If America banned guns, I'm sure they would still have a very high homicide rate until they start caring about people on the bottom of society.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:26, Share, Reply)
but the data I've seen does seem to suggest violent crime is far more to do with poverty.
If America banned guns, I'm sure they would still have a very high homicide rate until they start caring about people on the bottom of society.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:26, Share, Reply)
Aye, but I do often think that
the reason Switzerland isn't so fucked up is that they must be doing something right socially.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:57, Share, Reply)
the reason Switzerland isn't so fucked up is that they must be doing something right socially.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:57, Share, Reply)
You're right. I have no doubt that poverty is responsible for a high %age of violent crime, as is the ubiquitous firearms.
The two points are not mutually exclusive, however.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:56, Share, Reply)
The two points are not mutually exclusive, however.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 16:56, Share, Reply)
Yes, but the
gun crime debate seems to come down to "Guns are massively to blame" vs "Guns are not to blame at all".
I can't help but feel it is more "Guns are a bit to blame".
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:08, Share, Reply)
gun crime debate seems to come down to "Guns are massively to blame" vs "Guns are not to blame at all".
I can't help but feel it is more "Guns are a bit to blame".
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:08, Share, Reply)
You don't have to own a gun to kill someone,
BUT IT HELPS!!!
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:09, Share, Reply)
BUT IT HELPS!!!
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:09, Share, Reply)
It helps to kill lots of people in one go, anyway.
I reckon that I'd personally go for poison if I wanted to kill someone.
I always had a crap aim on Operation Wolf and would probably miss with a gun.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:21, Share, Reply)
I reckon that I'd personally go for poison if I wanted to kill someone.
I always had a crap aim on Operation Wolf and would probably miss with a gun.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:21, Share, Reply)
If I just wanted to kill a shed load of people,
I'd buy a big 4x4 second hand, take it to a busy shopping street, and mount the pavement.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:24, Share, Reply)
I'd buy a big 4x4 second hand, take it to a busy shopping street, and mount the pavement.
( , Wed 9 Jan 2013, 17:24, Share, Reply)