You don't hear that much about the ozone layer these days
it's obviously not a problem. *googles* Oops, it's worse than ever. Ozone depletion at 4% a decade.

My conspiracy theory here I wish to highlight is that we basically trust the newspapers to tell us what's important. And actually they are really really shit at that, being an odd mix of government PR, corporate PR, tits and OMG THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD HEADLINE LET'S RUN IT WHO CARES IF IT'S NONSENSE IT MIGHT SELL and the odd bit of really great journalism that makes you not totally give up on it all.

Christ knows what exact conspiracy I'm pointing out here. I think basically that news doesn't work very well but it's not in the interests of the media owners to fix it or something.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:41, 27 replies)

Nonsense, good sir.
We fixed the ozone layer when we dropped CFCs from deodorants and fridges. Didn't we?
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:48, closed)

the depletion continues
TBH I've only scanned the wiki page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion but as I understand it CFCs have been reduced but the ones put out in the past are still causing significant damage. A CFC molecule can stay in the atmosphere for about 100 years.

There's some predictions saying that the problem will bottom out and it'll improve again. But we're not on that upslope, or even that bottom. We're still going down the hill. I repeat. The depletion is getting worse.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:58, closed)

Apparently Concorde used to replenish the ozone layer...
Part of its exhaust gases comprised ozone, or something. I'm not sure why it was only Concorde, or why they didn't figure out how it did it and make all planes do the same thing.


/useless fact and rubbish idea
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:50, closed)

"Concorde produced nitrogen oxides in its exhaust, which, despite complicated chemical interactions with other ozone-depleting chemicals, are understood to result in degradation to the ozone layer at the stratospheric altitudes it cruised.[177] It has been pointed out that other, lower-flying, airliners produce ozone during their flights in the troposphere, but vertical transit of gases between the layers is restricted. The small fleet operated meant overall ozone-layer degradation caused by Concorde was negligible"
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 19:53, closed)

You mean I've been believing a lie all this time?!

(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Thu 8 Dec 2011, 9:23, closed)

The business of newspapers
is to sell newspapers. Like anything else they're a money-making enterprise. Though now and again you do get good journalism out of them in spite of that.

Same goes with television and net media whose job it is to attract customers so that the advertising works.

You need something like the BBC to overcome this problem to get journalism to work as it ought, but even they are subject to political bias from on high, who have their ties to various politicians. Also they're constrained by broadcast minutes as to the depth they can go into news stories, which is why their rolling news channel is seems to be the same half hour of shite repeated over and over. Still, it gave us Rico Hizon.
(Dildo Bugger destroyed a ring on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:53, closed)

The best thing about the BBC
is that right-wing politicians complain that it's too left-friendly, and the left complain that it's too right-wing and reactionary. So they're probably getting it about right, overall.
(moon monkey is busy making memories worth repressing, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 14:57, closed)

or that it's just shit and everyone finds it a problem
just throwing in an alternative there
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:02, closed)

If either side of the political divide thought the BBC was fair and balanced,
then we'd know it had a problem.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:07, closed)

yes - this is my point basically
we have these commercial interests which set the news agenda. This is actively harmful to the world as it misrepresents the issues facing us as a species. We all know this is a problem but we all sort of give up and go well that's just the way it is, market forces, who can blame them etc?

But we actively need better.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:26, closed)

You're the one with the widely read website.
You could use it to publicise the truth.

Of course, you'd lose all your readers, pretty quickly.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:33, closed)

also all I genuinely know about is animated gifs
and how to build html tables.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:40, closed)

You're doing yourself a disservice there, Rob.
What about songs and quizzes?
(Professor Kenny Martin Hmm? What?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:57, closed)

actually I was fibbing
I'm not very good at animated gifs.
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:07, closed)

A few twinkly stars
would certainly brighten up this place.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:05, closed)

There's enough b3tans with media savvy on here
and my rusty degree is in journalism. Could probably have a half-decent stab at B3ta Wikinews if you called for volunteers and put your mind to it.
(Dildo Bugger destroyed a ring on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:08, closed)

It would just be this.
( Happy Phantom has been to Hastings, Brighton, and Eastbourne too, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 23:24, closed)

Well no argument there
And when you look at the media the rest of the world gets, we don't do so bad with the old BBC. Whilst I'm no fan of the licence fee there is a case to be made that, since few enough of us will voluntarily pay for what's good for us, a light tax so that we can be furnished with public service broadcasting that actually serves the public and not economic interests isn't entirely a bad thing.

It would be interesting to see if a better model that did deliver impartial news, excellently reported could be organised though I'm not sure on what economic basis it would operate. You'd also be up against AP and Reuters though, whose business is to supply the news media with news stories as few media organisations have sufficient resources to cover the lot.
(Dildo Bugger destroyed a ring on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:04, closed)

they've gotten to you already, haven't they?
*readies cyanide blow dart*
( Smash Monkey lowering the tone of the whole internet, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:13, closed)

Don't blame the media
blame people. Especially British people - God I loathe us.

Nobody would read a newspaper with headlines like "WORLD STILL FUCKED - DON'T BOTHER WITH LONG TERM PLANS" or "WHOLE PLANET IGNORES WARNING SIGNS AS WE HURTLE TO OBLIVION". People just reject it as depressing and go off gawping at celebrity piffle or the latest political fiasco.

Sadly enough for humanity, Rupert Murdoch won the argument that he first pitched in the 80s - newpapers should give people what they want, not tell them what they need. His fucking minions are still spouting this fucking argument every week on the telly, and every day amongst themselves. It's actually written all through James Murdoch's bone marrow like a fucking stick of Blackpool rock.

And all this is just because nobody has the balls to offer the counter argument: "Fuck what people want. People are obviously idiots, and we shouldn't be trusting their judgement. We shouldn't give them what they want any more than we should offer a wee dram to an alcoholic." There, I said it.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:35, closed)

Couldn't agree more
it's far too easy to blame the media, when after all if they tried giving an unpopular message, sales would plummet. Even that arch-wanker Piers (Moron) Morgan *tried* taking the Mirror upmarket to deal with "real issues" and saw circulation fall off a cliff as a result.

If you think the media is poor, that our politicians are lying bastards, you'd be right, but both are the products of focus groups and reflect what people want to hear.

However the solution required - the infamous "benign dictatorship" ain't ever going to happen. Instead, we'll all be kept in bread and circuses, until the wheels finally fall off and we're all fucked.

Right kids ?
(TheImmortalJenkins, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 15:58, closed)

Wanna hear my solution?
Well, here it is anyway:

We make a very clear distinction between first and second class citizens. Pretty awesome, huh?

Wait - there's more: In my utopia, everyone is born a second class citizen. You can't vote, marry, own a house, give an opinion in public, listen to music on a bus or drive any form of vehicle. But, at any age you can apply to become a first class citizen. This involves several tests, including what we now call GSCEs, plus an evaluation of your personality and some general checklist type stuff. There's no way you can become illegible for this test. You can take the test as many times as you need, it is always free, and the revision materials are also always free and available to anyone. You don't have to complete it all at once, and you only have to pass each module once.

Problem solved.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:16, closed)

*doesn't vote for this*
*very much doesn't vote for this*
( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:24, closed)

You don't get a vote Rob
Nobody who disagrees will get a vote.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:29, closed)

mainly I meant I wasn't clicking "i like this" and felt a need to publicly state this

( rob, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:33, closed)

With my terrible handwriting,
I'd be illegible for pretty much any written test.

You fucking fascist.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:27, closed)

You beat me to it.

( number5 has been fighting tramps and losing., Wed 7 Dec 2011, 18:41, closed)

Well, that's all the deltas, gammas and epsilons fucked then
Why not introduce eugenics and have done with it ?

A: because that way, real dystopia lies.
(TheImmortalJenkins, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:50, closed)

I always thought that THX was the scariest vision of a dystopian future
But now that I live in the real future, I'm not so sure.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:56, closed)

Obviously the folk who are willing and able to hire private tutors will be at an advantage here.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 19:04, closed)

just accept that we're all fucked
then sit back and enjoy the ride
( Smash Monkey lowering the tone of the whole internet, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:01, closed)

Well that's what the Independent tried to do
when it first launched 25 years ago (or thereabouts).

Trouble is, the Independent is fucking boring.
(rockdoctor, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 16:08, closed)

News is a misnomer
The 'news' as we know it is a marketing tool and little else.

Flame away, but a good place for snippets of actual news is David Icke.com.

Ignore the adverts for his gigs, books and lizardry and there is actual meaty social commentary.
(Cancer Joy was short lived, Wed 7 Dec 2011, 19:06, closed)

Apologies in advance.
Unfortunately the acceptance and furtherance of this type of media communication is inherent within humanity. Adam Smith’s work on collective bargaining and John Nash’s continuation of it (apologies for using facts by the way) to me go much deeper than simple economics – they delve into the human psyche. It is ingrained into us to try to achieve, to try to move forward. People themselves have many different targets, be it procreation, power, philanthropy or money, but whatever it is we will try to push ourselves as far forward as possible.

When it comes to newspapers for example, they follow simple capitalist doctrine – money is good. In order for newspapers to make money, and at another level achieve power, they need to appeal to the masses. To appeal to the masses they just need to apply simple social science – they can use their power to actually tell people what they want (celebrity gossip, criticism of government/military/immigration, fluffy kitteh’s) and then provide it – people will eat it up.

What it comes down to is the system – capitalism is exploitation. That’s meant in its purest form by the way, the use of something for one’s own advantage. In order for people to advance to try to achieve whatever goals they believe are worthy they use the materials at hand. The majority of us unfortunately, as in ingrained in the human psyche, want what is best for ourselves, not the group (per Smith/Nash) or humanity as a whole. They/we will therefore exploit our resources to the point of destroying them without any thought to the future – as long as we and our immediate beneficiaries are in a healthy position. The only way to change this is to offer a credible alternative that appeals to all parties which, to date, nobody has offered.
( Hunter Stockton was murdered by a bicycle wielding axolotl,.,.,.,., Thu 8 Dec 2011, 10:12, closed)