Atheists
1.since this question is gonna bring out the stereotypes...i hate stereotypes, but i'm gonna post one anyway...

Atheist: rah rah i hate these christians (it is always christians, never buddhists or hindus, because these religions cannot be argued with in a scientific way) they think they know everything, but if you press them about it, they can't explain. they just believe what they're told!!
modern science completely debunks the christian religion! it was the big bang that started the universe...

Q: could you tell me about the big bang?

A: well yeah all the matter in the universe was compressed and then it exploded outwards

Q: can you explain why?

A: no.

Q. can you explain how life was formed?

A: no but the scientists said......
(ewe, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:34, 64 replies)

As opposed to
'my imaginary friend said...'?

Or 'this book written two thousand years ago by people who believed in dragons, witches and the four elements said...'
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:41, closed)

This.

( Moey, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:44, closed)

You mean..
This book which was actually written over 3000 years (it has been revised and re-written by a countless number of people during this time) and in lots of different languages and dialects, some of which we don't speak or understand properly anymore.
(powervator and NONE SHALL PASS, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:49, closed)

2000, 3000? Who cares
it's piss all compared 13 1/2 billion years...
( chthonic, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:05, closed)

^
True indeed!
(powervator and NONE SHALL PASS, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 19:00, closed)

you're
arguing against institutionalised Christianity.

why exactly?

you see the world in black and white.

either you're someone who takes the bible literally or your an atheist. you are a product of your time and you cannot see or even imagine this.
(ewe, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:55, closed)

Fair challenge
But if not belief in the literal sense of the Bible, please clarify what you are actually talking about ?

Is it the whole 'Well there must be a first cause so there's probably a God' thing? In which case, fair enough but forget about the Bible, the Koran, etc. So why argue that people shouldn't criticise organised religion, which is clearly a load of nonsense?
(SnowyTheWereRabbit the Leporid from Hell, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 0:12, closed)

Ad hominem attacks never work, you know.
Referring to your opposition in condescending terms simply makes one look like a prat.

I mean, at one point it was accepted as 100% SCIENTIFIC FACT that there was luminous ether that transmitted light. It was also considered 100% SCIENTIFIC FACT that a heavier-than-air machine could not fly.

Science could be wrong about this one too. We'll never know.
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Fri 20 Feb 2009, 22:02, closed)

Well...
We'll 'never know' anything to an absolute certainty, but that's the burden you accept when you adopt a scientific, evidence-based view (which is why, incidentally, the accusation that you can discount science because in the people who look to science for answers think it is '100% SCIENTIFIC FACT' is bunkum)

It is not an ad hominem attack to suggest that someone who thinks that the bible and a mass of scientific evidence should have equal weight is talking bollocks. It's just a fair point.
(SnowyTheWereRabbit the Leporid from Hell, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 23:52, closed)

But...
not every Christian believes every word of the Bible is literally true and doesn't give equal weight to it and science. For example I don't believe, I know there is a God but I'm perfectly happy to allow others their beliefs and knowledge. Just like Loon said, how do I know I'm right?

I don't, really. I could be facing Cthulu after I die. (Oh shit, will I be surprised!)I believe God created the universe. However, He has to work within His own rules. It wasn't made in 6 days; He started just like scientists posit: the Big Bang, the sun coalesced and the earth formed in orbit:"The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; ...And God said, 'Let there be light';...there was evening and there was morning"
Continents and DNA formed and vegetation grew (altho do scientists know where plants came from?)"God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas....And God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation,...And it was so".
Genesis is a bit off, because they have the sun and moon forming next and that's not how it works. Meh.
Life began in the sea and developed into extraaqua life-birds i.e. reptiles/dinosaurs: "So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."

and so on.
I think 99.99bar% of what are called "miracles " aren't. If angels or whoever save someone in a car accident, does that mean the one who died wasn't worthy of saving? Of course not. These people who delude themselves they won't ever be harmed because they pray are in essence shoving their accidents onto the rest of us. God doesn't go around willy-nilly performing miracles, he has other things to do than listen to whingers. Sheesh!

I don't mind atheists, agnostics, members of other faiths-they have their own just-as-compelling-as-mine reasons. The point is as tootired's gran said, "Do a good one" whatever you believe. I hold bad Christians in contempt and like ethical atheists.
I agree militants of any stripe are annoying, scary and sometimes dangerous (Crusaders, jihadists, people who burn widows, anyone?). Someone who is secure in their beliefs is concerned with their own behaviour and can't be arsed to bully others about theirs.

On being a cunt: I think it depends on the person and their interpretation rather than the religion.
Except for Scientologists. They are all going to the Devil.
(TDub Nunc id vides, nunc ne vides on, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 21:00, closed)

hmmm
"For example I don't believe, I know there is a God [...] how do I know I'm right? I don't, really."

So, you do believe in god and you don't know he exists.
(MrChimp previously Monsieur, Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:25, closed)

Er...
...yes. Because belief and knowledge are two different things.

For example, one may believe that Madelein McCann was murdered by her parents. But one does not necessarily know it.
( Undercovercarrot got done for gross misconduct on..., Sun 22 Feb 2009, 21:12, closed)

I say
I know He exists the same way I know what I want for supper. I just do. I can't imagine not believing in God. It would be like not believing in my butt. I can't see it, but I know it's there.


Not the world's most elegant argument. Sorry.
(TDub Nunc id vides, nunc ne vides on, Mon 23 Feb 2009, 9:48, closed)

Use a mirror.
Then you'll be able to see your cute bum.
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Mon 23 Feb 2009, 23:59, closed)

Mwah!
Perfect answer!
(TDub Nunc id vides, nunc ne vides on, Tue 24 Feb 2009, 18:18, closed)

In other words
you don't know it at all, it's just faith.

Which is fine.
(An Alien sneezed on Bill Oddies binoculars, Thu 26 Feb 2009, 13:18, closed)

We'll never know if we don't look.
If we just accept, for example, the bible as absolute truth and don't test things and think for ourselves we'll never know.

If, however, we follow the scientific method we might know.
(MrChimp previously Monsieur, Sun 22 Feb 2009, 14:21, closed)

I'm an atheist
The only thing I KNOW is that all religions are superstitious nonsense born of a neccessity to control and to exploit the people.

Science doesn't have all the answers but then it doesn't claim to.
( stopmeandslapme Cometh the hour, cometh your mum, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:42, closed)

yes
yes i agree with you, but my point is that some atheist DO believe that science has all the answers, and this leads to a hypocritically closed mind
(ewe, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:51, closed)

It's not hypocrisy
I'll say that again, it's NOT hypocrisy. Look up the definition of hypocrisy and you'll see I am right.


It's also not close minded to say "I think you're story about the imaginary being who controls everything and made the entire universe is a load of rubbish". It's perfectly logical. There is absolutely no reason to suppose that over any other total load of bunkem I could make up right now. Believing that above all else IS close minded.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:30, closed)

huh?
who said it was closed minded? once again a b3tan atheist assumes that anyone who points out a flaw in atheism automatically believes in some "imaginary being" (nice straw man btw), usually an abramhamic type god figure who has a personality.
I personally think that this idea is not true. but then I dont discount the idea that there may be a connecting life force that science cannot explain or even comprehend.
(ewe, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:38, closed)

Your argument is flawed.
Atheism is disbelief in god. From dictionary.com: "the doctrine or belief that there is no God." Belief in science is a different animal. You're confusing the two.
( argyleblanket The man on the roof works for me, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 23:53, closed)

no
atheists are and that's the point.


most b3tarded and western atheists are reacting against western god. they are reacting against primary school interpretations of christianity and/or islam/jewish religion.

they start to see science as the antithesis to western religion...and overtime science becomes their god (flame on, it's just a figure of speech)...the problem being what starts as a logical rejection of western personalised god becomes a rejection of all things that fall outside of the rigourous category of science. now people wont belive anything unless they are told by the scientific community and/or the media.


"if you want to know the truth look for a heart that comes from god alone
when you get the heart, give in back again
so we can keep the secret
safe from the tampering of human hands."
r'abia
(ewe, Sun 22 Feb 2009, 3:12, closed)

"wont belive anything unless they are told by the scientific community and/or the media."
Spelling mistakes aside, you've got to ask yourself - who's more worthy of our trust - a bunch of power-mad ex-hippies who have a history of using torture and oppression to get their way, or the scientific community?

Or you can make up your own beliefs, which is what you seem to be saying. Guess what got us started on the whole slippery slope in the first place?

Thing thing with the god of your choice is, it requires your belief to exist. No believers = no god. Subatomic particles don't give a shit whether you believe in them or not.
( argyleblanket The man on the roof works for me, Sun 22 Feb 2009, 18:10, closed)

you seem to have a problem with individualism
I would prefer "search for my own beliefs". rather than "make up".

a careful study of both religion and science reveals that they are both in essence, the same thing. attempts to find knowledge. but the problem is that the institutionalised versions attempt to take discovery of knowledge out of the hands of the "lay person" and into the realm of experts.


all in all. fuck St Paul.
(ewe, Mon 23 Feb 2009, 6:55, closed)

I want to avoid a rant.
However I don't ask a scientist what I believe. I make up my own mind.
(powervator and NONE SHALL PASS, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:46, closed)

Magic Man in Sky
Is the obvious answer surely?
( Mrs Entity is in hiding., Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:48, closed)

As an agnostic, I tend to straddle the fence (ooo-er!)
I take the South Park defense - maybe evolution is the answer to how and not why.

One thing that always strikes me is the number of dyed in the wool atheists who complain about religious folk constantly trying to convert them. No-one's ever just come up to me at random, without provocation and try to 'convert' me. If they did, fair enough, I'd be pissed off, but it's never happened to me yet, nor to any of my mates.

This is making me sound like I'm on the side of the religious, so to offset that I will agree with what's said above with science not claiming to have all the answers. I loved Terry Pratchett's (a confirmed atheist) desciption of things, which went something along the lines of "In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."

At the end of the day, who brings this shit up in normal conversation anyway? I haven't a clue about the faith or otherwise of those I'm in regular contact with on a day to day basis, and that's the way I like it, because most people have the sense to not let it affect their day to day lives. Only the most rabid fundy or atheist would bother bringing it up, and then only to support their superiority complexes.

Amazing how much these 'extremists' as it were have in common, really.

Just my two cents.
( Spunk Murphy Tchaikovsky is a synonym for fanny, apparently, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:52, closed)

Have you never
had Jehovas knocking on your door or been handed books by Hare Krishnas in the street?
( stopmeandslapme Cometh the hour, cometh your mum, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 17:55, closed)

actually
i bought some of the gouranga powered band's cd from a hare krishna monk. the opening song was 30 minutes of the hare krishna chant over heavy as fuck stoner rock. awesome.
(ewe, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:00, closed)

No
it wasn't awesome. It was shit. You're just an idiot.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:31, closed)

BWAHAHAHAHA!
...
(ewe, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 19:09, closed)

Oh, come on!
Insulting someone's musical tastes? How low can you sink?

To clarify: No matter your opinion on the creation, nature of or reason for the world around us, surely musical and artistic tastes are a purely personal, subjective opinion? Assuming this, it's folly to judge someone's intelligence based on their artistic preferences, just as it would be to judge them on their sexuality or race.
(idle insomniac enjoys listening to Sigur Rós at stupid hours, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 2:29, closed)

I've heard that CD
they give it out every year at music festivals when you park and the charity people go round demanding money.

It is shit.
(Bazongaloid, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 9:35, closed)

i seriously doubt
they "demand" money.
(ewe, Sun 22 Feb 2009, 6:15, closed)

I haven't actually, no
But now that you mention it, I appreciate that it must get on peoples tits.

I would consider the guys who go door to door on the more extreme side of the religious folk, acting as a counterweight to the (admittedly few) atheists who insist that science has the answer for everything and there definitely absolutely no-doubt-about-it no God.

The best thing and the worst thing about being free to believe whatever you want is that allows someone else the freedom to think you're a cunt for believing what you do :)
( Spunk Murphy Tchaikovsky is a synonym for fanny, apparently, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:07, closed)

I once found a filofax (few years back) lying on the pavement
I would have posted it to the person who lost it but for the fact that it belonged to a Mormon (if my memory serves me right) and it was filled with appointments and streets to target. Where he'd got some positive response he'd put the name and address and some comments. One of them said something like "scout leader, very important, CHASE UP!".

No you don't matey! Still got it somewhere I think.
( stopmeandslapme Cometh the hour, cometh your mum, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:27, closed)

I disagree
I wouldn't say they are 'extreme'.

They simply follow by example - Jesus went door to door to talk about the kingdom to those who would listen.

'extreme' are the people who go about screaming at others that they are going to hell. (Which is aptly hypocritical as the bible plainly doesn't mention hell).
(FunOnABun Smears lard on you!, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 19:02, closed)

Erm...
I can't remember the bit in the Bible where Jesus goes door to door.

I remember him lunching, supper-ing, etc. in lots of people's houses and doing lots of healing, but the bit where the disciples and him split up and head off round a town to do some door-knocking and preach to random people?Don't remember that. Maybe I'm being ignorant?
(SnowyTheWereRabbit the Leporid from Hell, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 23:58, closed)

I haven't read enough of the Bible to really be qualified to comment,
but I abjectly refuse to believe that it doesn't mention Hell anywhere in it.
(idle insomniac enjoys listening to Sigur Rós at stupid hours, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 2:31, closed)

"they will be cast into the outer darkness"
Mark 2:15 translated from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic as "the unseen state" meaning after death of the body.

Look in any concordex at the back of a Bible under "Future home of the wicked" and there's a bunch.
(TDub Nunc id vides, nunc ne vides on, Sun 22 Feb 2009, 0:56, closed)

Yes
And I politely say no thanks. Then we part ways amicably.

If you get them more than once a year, your privileged.
(FunOnABun Smears lard on you!, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:42, closed)

When asked an unanswered question...
The theists usually say that they know.

The atheists/scientists will usually say that they don't know. But they're looking into it.
( Amish Information Systems hates misplaced, commas, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:26, closed)

This
I know some deeply christian people who simply. don't. question. why. they. hold. those. beliefs.

I'm a scientist and an atheist but I also studied philosphy for two years. I remember many discussions with these people that consisted of reasoned arguments from me which only recieved the reply "It just is".


Be christian if you want. Be muslim if you want. Be jewish if you want, I really don't give a fuck. But if you accept things blindly, then the world is better off without you.
( MatJ LOOK, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:38, closed)

add "be atheist"
to that list and we can all agree and go home
(ewe, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:44, closed)

It's kind of assumed.
The general adopted stance with atheism is a scientific outlook on it, in that if proof does show up to the contrary, and it's sufficient to warrant a change in theory, then you change the theory.

Whereas with religion, blind faith is all that's involved. Whether you work by the book, or make your own beliefs. You fundamentally look away from the evidence around you and say

'Fuck off reality! I believe what I believe and no one can change that!'

And that's going to get us nowhere.
(Tetigi can't be bothered with apathy., Sun 22 Feb 2009, 19:49, closed)

A bloke at college
very intelligent but believed in the Bible literally. I asked him about the fossils of Dinosaurs in the ground. He said "Satan put them there to trick us". Can't argue with that.
( stopmeandslapme Cometh the hour, cometh your mum, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 18:46, closed)

Hasn't this been lifted from Bill Hicks
/dubious :P
( whenanimalsattackhumans clad in global hypercolour, Mon 23 Feb 2009, 13:43, closed)

Not quite.
"God put them there to test our faith."
"God put you here to test my faith, dude."
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Tue 24 Feb 2009, 0:02, closed)

Precisely.
A true scientist is able to say - with no shame whatsoever - "I don't know everything about the universe. However, I keep an open mind and I am prepared to change my world view depending on the new evidence that becomes available."

A religious person, however, thinks that they know everything and they resolutely refuse to consider any new evidence, because they believe in a fairy tale that was written thousands of years ago.

I know which sort of person I'd rather give my respect to.
(EuroSong I love horse meat: best of all the animals, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 12:02, closed)

What I think is hypocritical
is those atheists who complain about Christians telling them they're wrong and trying to convert them but then tell all religious people they're wrong and should be atheists!!! Pfft!! I'm a Christian and I never try and convert anyone cos for all anyone knows, I could be wrong. People should keep their opinions to themselves.

Oh and I'm a scientist too, I really do question everything.
(Petite chien is going to do science to it, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 19:23, closed)

*taps on shoulder*
Pssst. You're wasting your breath. The thing about militant atheists is that they're just as fanatical about their view as militant religious people are about theirs. They just don't like having their fanaticism pointed out to them, so they won't listen to you.

A scientist? Cool! I'm an engineer. What's your field of work?
( The Resident Loon Not a demographic. Do not measure., Fri 20 Feb 2009, 21:57, closed)

:D
another perfect answer!
(TDub Nunc id vides, nunc ne vides on, Tue 24 Feb 2009, 18:21, closed)

Jovey's are great
I like to invite them into other people's houses and then leave.

I usually get a text a few hours later with the word CUNT and nothing else.
(magic the cat will someone please think of the kittens, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 22:34, closed)

CUNT
nothing else.
( stopmeandslapme Cometh the hour, cometh your mum, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 22:38, closed)

sometimes
I'll even make them a cup of tea
(magic the cat will someone please think of the kittens, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 23:15, closed)

You're an idiot
and someone should pin you down and fart on your head like hardcore
(Slyph, Fri 20 Feb 2009, 23:07, closed)

YEAHHH! HARDCORE!!!

(idle insomniac enjoys listening to Sigur Rós at stupid hours, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 2:34, closed)

yay
I like this!
( estuardo estuardo, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 8:27, closed)

Yay for you
All my Church of England friends are happy to admit the possibility of doubt, they might be wrong, it works for them but they wouldn't possibly ram it down your throat, etc. etc.

All my atheist friends are YOU ARE STUPID FOR BELIEVING THIS and IT'S SO INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND and WE KNOW EVERYTHING yadda yadda.

Personally I find it pretty easy to decide. Atheist fundamentalists act like cunts, Christian fundamentalists act like cunts, Muslim fundamentalists act like cunts. Church of England Christians, agnostics and "I don't really call myself anything" act like normal people and are willing to give you the luxury of having your own opinion.

So, cunt or normal person? "By your deeds shall ye know them." Some wise bloke said that once. I forget his name.
(ChaRleyTroniC is invincible with his chips and cheese, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 1:03, closed)

Amen to that!
And yes, I am Church of England. Ironically the hardcore scary Christians take the piss out of us, but hey, like you said, I'd rather be normal!
(Petite chien is going to do science to it, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 11:32, closed)

Church of England?
Cake or death?
( flake has nothing against your right leg, Tue 24 Feb 2009, 0:03, closed)

*vomits with insulted rage*
*thinks*


*sighs in resignation*
fine, whatever...
(idle insomniac enjoys listening to Sigur Rós at stupid hours, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 2:36, closed)

You opened the proverbial
can of beans with this post, well done!
( stopmeandslapme Cometh the hour, cometh your mum, Sat 21 Feb 2009, 9:20, closed)