i only cry with rage
so sunday/monday morning, during another pointless drunken argument with the ex. he's the only person i argue with; otherwise it's pretty much impossible to fall out with me.

alt: i was amazed to learn that most germans rent rather than buying their homes. who here owns/rents?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:52, 4 replies, latest was 12 years ago)

True of Italians too.
(owns, by skin of teeth)
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:53, Reply)

Know what, I'm gonna help you out. If the unthinkable does happen and the bank sends you a repossesion notice
I'll pop out to Sainsburies and get you some more boxes
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:54, Reply)

I do both
Buying is a british thing and the rental market isn't as regulated as in Europe.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:53, Reply)

You're bisexual?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:53, Reply)

No, he just has a beard.

(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:55, Reply)

an anal beard

( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:55, Reply)

i guess the general perception here is that people who rent can't afford to buy? not saying that's right, just that seems to be the attitude.
i guess it is dead money when you think about it. you've been paying off someone else's mortgage for years.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:54, Reply)

They have better long term contracts on the continent.
And you can do things to places you are renting and stuff.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:55, Reply)

Mine's leasehold so technically that's all I'm doing really.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:57, Reply)

as long as the lease is long enough it's not so bad
leasehold is a fucking cheek though
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:58, Reply)

it's kind of hard to see what else you can do though - you can't have a freehold flat, and commonhold never took off
the best way is to buy somewhere that has a share of freehold and hope your co-owners aren't cunts. my landlord is the queen, so everything is immaculate - but the cunting service charge is £10,000 a year.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:59, Reply)

O_O
£10k, what the fuck do you get back for that kind of money? how many flats are there?
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:00, Reply)

we have 24 hour porters
and gardeners etc. it's also one of those mansion blocks, so they're always doing something to it, to upgrade it. last year it was electric gates. this year it's sky tv for all the flats.

not sure how many flats. there's about 5 blocks in total, going down the street, and lizzie owns the lot.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:02, Reply)

So we are talking about hundreds of thousands of pounds a year in service charges
i want to be able to demand blowjobs from the 24hr porter
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:06, Reply)

yeeeeeeah
the one in my block is an alcoholic bald dude. you go for him. i don't mind.

the bulk of the money will be in lease extensions. eg mine was the thick end of £50k, and i had over 80 years left.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:07, Reply)

What did it extend to?

(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:11, Reply)

well, normally you get 90 years as a statutory right (leasehold reform and urban development act 1993)
but the statute doesn't bind certain entities, and the crown is one of them. however, the crown has volunteered to abide by it where possible.

in my case, the crown wants all the flats on the same length leases. therefore they were only prepared to grant me another 57 years. i was happy with that, since it saved me a few more thousand on the full 90 years, but 137 years is plenty long enough to boost the value of the flat.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:18, Reply)

Right, so bare with me here as I've never even considered buying leasehold so I know nothing about it,
but let's say I'm looking at a flat and it currently has a lease of 90 years. So I buy it, pay off my mortgage, but then your saying that because it took me 25 years to do that and my lease is only for 65 years that my flat would now be worth less because of the shorter lease period, and to extend that lease I have to pay thousands of pounds more?
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:22, Reply)

This is how I undderstand it
it's madness i tell you
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:24, Reply)

Yes. How shit is that?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:26, Reply)

So who is that owns the lease?
And why can't you just buy the flat off them instead of leasing it?
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:26, Reply)

whoever the landlord is
could be the people in the block collectively. could be the builder. could be the queen. could be an investor.

you can't own the freehold of a flat independently of the rest of the block. the structure, roof, common parts etc are owned by the landlord, who then leases the live-able bits.

what you CAN do is get together with the other residents and force the landlord to sell to you, provided enough people want to do it. then you can grant yourself a new 999 year lease at a peppercorn premium!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:31, Reply)

I don't really understand why you can't.
Sounds like a massive con to me. Why can't leases be made really long, like 500 years or something?
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:32, Reply)

they can
you can agree whatever you want. but you can only force the landlord into another 90. as a VERY rough rule of thumb, you only see short-term leases like these in london. the rest of the country tend to be on 999 year leases, or even 2,000 year leases, so of course it's academic.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:33, Reply)

that's exactly right
you are renting, like any other tenancy, but on a longer term and at a low rent to reflect the fact that a premium was paid for the grant of the lease at the beginning.

i have a second floor flat. effectively i have the right to use the space between the floor and the ceiling for the next 137 years. except that the landlord made damn sure to demise the ceiling to me, since plaster is expensive!

it's a simplistic view. it gets factored into the purchase price, eg which is why share of freehold is more attractive. and for a second eg, ideally you will extend at about 85 years so that it's much cheaper.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:29, Reply)

Sounds like it doesn't work though
since flats are all you can buy in central london, the prices of them aren't very attractive.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:31, Reply)

i think it's widely recognised that it's not ideal
but there is no way to change it.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:32, Reply)

Au contrair swipey
there is always a way to change it, there is simply no inclination to change it.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:33, Reply)

oh well, fair enough
it gives me a lot of work though. landlord and tenant disputes are meat and drink to me.

dullest letter ever: "i act for your landlord. stop hanging your dirty sports socks out on the balcony. it breaches the nuisance clause in your lease."
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:37, Reply)

Actually it's only 67 years.
Not good at all.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:03, Reply)

you do need to get that extended at some point, as doubtless you well know
not a problem for you, but it will mean that you'll struggle to sell, as any purchaser wouldn't be able to get a mortgage on that. mind you, there are agencies that specialise in hooking up cash buyers with shorter term leases.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:06, Reply)

Not sure where the old tramp will find the cash to buy a lease extention though

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:07, Reply)

*looks down back of sofa*

*sells sofa*
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:08, Reply)

I do indeed know
but it looks like being 25k odd to sort it: not something currently possible for me, as you'd imagine.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:07, Reply)

No probs, you have 67 years to save up

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:09, Reply)

So, if he doesn't extend the lease, what happens?

(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:10, Reply)

it reverts to the landlord
like any lease
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:12, Reply)

I believe the ownership of the property is transfered to the lease holder
which feels criminal really
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:12, Reply)

Jesting aside
that's kind of my plan. Assuming I can hang on here*, I will have no mortgage by my early 50s and will borrow the money to add 99 years or whatever then.

*BIG assumption
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:11, Reply)

if you are happy in the same place until then, that's not a bad plan at all

( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:13, Reply)

I could do with another bedroom but am resigned to being there for the forseeable,
at the very best.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:17, Reply)

You could get one of those posters of a cat hanging from a washing line and it says "hang on in there" underneath

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:13, Reply)

Replace the TAKE ME TO YOUR DEALER one?
Never!
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:28, Reply)

MonaLisasmokingjointlolz

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 15:05, Reply)

I had you down as a "packet of marijuana cigarettes poster" man
or that tennis bird scratching her arse.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Fri 11 May 2012, 15:16, Reply)

you'd be paying all 3 bits of the statutory equation
which is based on the market value of the flat. plus you have to pay the landlord's legal costs.

it does suck. the only thing is that it is usually reflected in the purchase price by the time you get below 80 years. eg i saw a stunning flat in south ken when i was looking; it was only £500k for a 3 bed top floor flat with a terrace. i sniffed a rat. a giant stinking sewer rat. sure enough, foxtons admitted sheepishly it had 7 years left on the term. valuer estimated cost of extending for another 90 years to be £1,500,000. so basically... a £2M flat.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:10, Reply)

For the porridge wogs amongst us...
..speak English woman.

What is this fucking lunacy?

Up here, you either buy a house and it's yours forever, or you rent. It's not fucking difficult.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Fri 11 May 2012, 14:19, Reply)

technically, the queen could still take it off you, jock

( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:34, Reply)

It sounds like a load of old bollocks to me
I hope she carks it soon, for your sake.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Fri 11 May 2012, 14:36, Reply)

assuming a stable or growing housing market your mortgage "payments" aren't payments at all
rather a change from cash wealth to asset wealth, rent is just money being poured away.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:56, Reply)

generally i think those who would defend renting permanently in this country
would either have swung something amazing like a rent act tenancy, or have a severe case of denial. but maybe i've been brainwashed by the property ladder media.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:00, Reply)

Or are illegally in a housing association place and paying fucking peanuts

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:03, Reply)

rent act tenancies were murder for landlords
i have some that i am dealing with at the moment, and it's a total bitch. eg i have one dude paying £400 a month for a 3 storey townhouse in notting hill. and it's hereditary, so when he carks it, a relative could stay for the next god knows how long.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:05, Reply)

If rents were controlled so that by renting you would definitely be paying less than a mortgage
then there would be an option, but the way it currently works you're a mug if you rent, but also, you probably won't ever be able to afford a mortgage of your own.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:05, Reply)

they used to be
it meant that there was no money in being a landlord, so people either resorted to very dodgy tactics or didn't put any rental property on the market. i mean, why would you pay all that money on a mortgage, only to be stuck with a tenant's rent covering a fraction of it? there's no incentive.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:07, Reply)

I'm not going to pretend to have thought about it enough
but there must be a compromise available somehow or it wouldn't work in other countries. There aren't enough houses being built full stop, which is only increasing the pressure on prices.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:09, Reply)

new houses are inevitably shit
Did you see that program outlining how small their rooms often are and how tiny the windows are to help meet engergy efficiency targets?
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:12, Reply)

It depresses me when I go and visit new developments as part of my job and you see just how crap the new build properties are.
And then you go round the corner to where they've built the housing association plots and it's even worse.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:15, Reply)

And wwhy aren't they built in a modern style from more modern materials
instead of relatively traditional bricks and mortar, 2 up 2 down etc etc
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:19, Reply)

BOR-RING

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:20, Reply)

Because you are a bent spastic.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:20, Reply)

My negative influence on 21st centuary architecture is well documented

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:22, Reply)

BORRING

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:22, Reply)

BORRING

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:23, Reply)

Because there is nothing wrong with bricks and mortar.
They are cheap and strong and can easily be made insulated to give you a toasty warm home.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:25, Reply)

I know that, but i want houses made of zinc and titanium with catalvered roofs and towers

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:32, Reply)

Actually, what do you do for a living?
aside from digging holes
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:20, Reply)

I'm hardly likely to tell you that am I.

(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:26, Reply)

Why not? You don't have to be specific
I'm guessing you are a surveyor of some sort
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:27, Reply)

Nah, elephant dung removal experts

(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:30, Reply)

oh
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:32, Reply)

Yeah, it can be damned hazardous.

(Bazongaloid, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:40, Reply)

it used to work, house prices got out of hand and rents didn't
when i was 18, i bought a 1 bed flat in didsbury as an investment. i paid £42,000 and the mortgage was about £312 a month. my rental income was £560. profit.

5 years later, i sold it to pay for my law degree. i sold it for £101,500. marvellous for me. but priced it totally out of the rental market for anyone who needed a mortgage, as the rents had stayed totally static.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:12, Reply)

The house I rented before I bought my own 12 years ago
is now back up for rent at 40% higher than it was when I rented it.
In the meantime my monthly mortgage repayments, which started off about 12% lower than the rent I was paying have now dropped to less than half what it would cost to rent that house today.
I think buying was the right option for me.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:26, Reply)

i think it is for everyone in the uk

( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:34, Reply)

Well, I'm thinking I might have to go into shared accommodation for a while to get my deposit sorted out.
From a house to a flat to a shared house.

I'm doing it wrong.
( Kroney, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:42, Reply)

+ in Slough

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:43, Reply)

I won't be sharing in Slough.
Fuck THAT.
( Kroney, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:47, Reply)

Chompy is looking for a flatmate

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:43, Reply)

"Basingstoke woman traumatised by frozen turd rape"

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:45, Reply)

lols

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:47, Reply)

I live under a bridge.
you might say I'm a troll
LOL
( mark morrisons prison shoes I love Willie, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:56, Reply)

LOL

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 11 May 2012, 13:58, Reply)

I used to own, have switched to renting
for a while, anyway.

More flexible, innit.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:03, Reply)

Always owned, never rented
Mortgage paid in 12 years! Woop
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:49, Reply)

Dead from heart attack in 13

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:50, Reply)

After a year of expensive wines and food, aye

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Fri 11 May 2012, 14:58, Reply)

I just got £65K from my house sale
I shall be looking for a 3 bedroom flat with a terrace in Kensington with that, obviously.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Fri 11 May 2012, 15:20, Reply)