I was a young Irish man living in London...
..I was on the 18 bus heading home to Wembley. A pregnant lady got on and, as there were no seats because it was rush hour, I did the right thing and offered her my seat. The following short conversation followed:-

Lady:- Why are you offering me your seat?

Me (pointing) :- Because you're pregnant

Lady:- No I'm not (silence descends upon the bus)

As I was already standing in preparation of giving up my seat, I decided to leave the bus at the next stop. As soon as I was off the bus and my face had quietened back from scarlet to it's normal pasty colour, I was left to wonder "Why didn't she just take the f*cking seat and say nothing?". 18 years later and I'm still not sure.

As I stood at the bus stop waiting for the next bus to complete my journey home I thought of some brilliant, witty and cutting comeback lines which would have got the whole bus laughing, defusing the situation whilst making me a kind of jovial superhero spreading joy to miserable London commuters. Instead I stared intently at my shoes ignoring the tutting and praying for the next stop to come along as quickly as possible.
( sneep used to date Freddie Starr's hamster, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:21, 49 replies)

Was it
"Well you can fucking stand then"?
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:24, closed)

Ah, humour d'escalier - curse of all those not big enough to bellow "WELL I FUCKED YOUR MOTHER!"
in the face of the adversary.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:25, closed)

I wouldn't fuck yours, she's nasty blud

( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:31, closed)

She would make you cry like a little girl.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:39, closed)

I've heard he cries like a little girl
after every wank.

Though he is right about your freaky step-mother.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:49, closed)

l'esprit d'escalier, ACKSHERLY.

( janet aylia y'all motherfuckers need jesus, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:50, closed)

l'esprit de l'escalier, acksherly.
tut tut.
rule #1: when being pedantic on the internet ensure you are correct before proceeding. it'll help save you from looking like a prick.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Tue 17 May 2011, 19:24, closed)

It's ACTUALLY acksherley
and so say all of us...
(Chickenwire social lubricator extraordinaire, Wed 18 May 2011, 5:49, closed)

Fair play!
;)
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 8:39, closed)

It's either.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 18 May 2011, 10:18, closed)

If you truley believe that (doubtful) then...
You're as thick a fucking prick as you accuse everyone else of being.
The definite article is required unless you're an utter yokel.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 10:50, closed)

Truley? Hahahaha.
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esprit_de_l%27escalier

google.fr:
esprit de l'escalier - Environ 479 000 résultats (0,24 secondes)
esprit d'escalier - Environ 2 530 000 résultats (0,42 secondes)

Va te faire pendre ailleurs.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 18 May 2011, 11:14, closed)

Ask google and you get an answer from google.
Ask someone who's been interpreting and translating professionally for 30 or so years and you'll get a proper answer based on a proper understanding of translation methodology and a proper knowledge of grammar, innit.
Just because literacy standards in France are being eroded like in just about every other country on the planet doesn't matter a golly gosh darn. The French are as capable of misquoting their own literary heritage as anyone else. Personally I'll stick with the words from my tame linguist, after all, i know they actually studied Diderot, Rousseau et al and can verify their stance from actual 230yo books on an actual bookshelf in their actual house, rather than, oh well, ya know, the hastily "researched" results of a one trick pony.
Maybe you should have checked Belgian google, or maybe Swiss? They speak French too, don't ya know?
"i read it on google so it must be true" LOL
Your personal standards are as low as your IQ, but well done for not reverting to type by deleting the thread.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 18:13, closed)

Blah blah blah blah blah.
You're wrong. Wikipedia.fr says you're wrong. 2 million french websites say you're wrong. My fluent french says you're wrong. My french wife says you're wrong. You're wrong. Eat it up, you fucking plumber.

edit: google.be and google.ch also agree

A bit of humility and dignity might be called for here.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 18 May 2011, 19:06, closed)

i don't know what relevant qualifications you wife has, frankly it matters not one jot.
i've checked with a reliable source and know that i am correct in saying that if you choose to ignore the definite article in the phrase in question then you are indicating clearly that you are a yokel, a bumpkin.
sorry, i meant utter yokel.
france is full of them, looks like you married one.

edit: for the record i have spent about 20% of my life living in france, i love the country and the people, however a yokel is a yokel is a yokel.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 19:19, closed)

Bless.
If you think feeble ad hominem arguments will dig you out of this hole then you're even more wrong.

I just checked my Larousse and OED and they agree that both forms are acceptable. Larousse suggests the form without the definite article is preferable. edit: and Robert agrees ... that's three definitive dictionaries ... where are you going now?

Does your "reliable" source have a problem with "yokel" phrases like "l'esprit d'entreprise"? Because he is starting to sound like either a figment of your imagination or somebody you know with a pass at French CSE.

edit: and your edit doesn't remove the laughable attempt at offensiveness
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 18 May 2011, 19:42, closed)

*clutches bag of popcorn*

( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 18 May 2011, 19:58, closed)

It's hardly the WBC heavyweight crown.
Three dictionaries, three versions of google and french wikipedia versus an unidentified but "reliable" source. You'd be better off watching an old episode of Time Team and betting on how overexcited Baldrick will pretend to be over a bit of muddy pot.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Wed 18 May 2011, 20:03, closed)

yeah, 3 of this, 3 of that...
and one shambo who is utterly incapable of reading, understanding and responding to the actual point made by a poster to whom he is responding.
if you keep making up the question in your own mind and ignoring the one on the screen in front of you then you will never achieve relevance.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 20:26, closed)

Yet I'm going to trust him over you
for he is not a nob end.
( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 18 May 2011, 21:05, closed)

however he cannot read,
nor stick to the point.
or avoid fantasy over reality.
or appreciate the difference between a speaker of a language and a scholar of said language...
or, like yourself, the difference between sycophancy and agreement.
there's none so blind as those that cannot see.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 21:11, closed)

Oh dear. If you are a scholar of language then you understand that language is fluid.
I'll let Shambles handle his own argument however, as he is a big boy.
( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 18 May 2011, 21:22, closed)

like shambo, you're clearly not a fan of reading, or you wouldn't have missed my ever-so-poorly hidden subtleties.
i'm neither a scholar of french nor have ever claimed to be.
i've only lived and worked t/here for about 20% of my life so far (about 1/3 of my working life), so not THAT much opportunity there to explore a culture or the attendant varieties of language within said country , i'm sure you would agree? or not.
i was referring to my source, who for reasons of shambo's prior stalkiness (logged but not linked), i believe wants to remain anonyme. she is 54yoa, has been speaking 3 languages since earliest development (vietnam), translator and interpreter in 7 languages these last 34-or-so years (except i keep telling her that she needs a bit more work on her portuguese, funny really, cos i could barely get a pint and a butty in oporto ;)), works freelance at high levels, returning to clients (academic and industrial mainly) year after year. i'm actually rather envious of her success, but i've never stuck with things the way she does.
yes, i'm sure sheeples is a VERY big boy.
a very big, thread-deleting, aggressive, stalky , intellectually inadequate boy.

yes ww, language is fluid. well done for realising that.
the point of this sub-thread was me (i thought quite nicely) correcting another poster on their mis-quoting of Diderot/Rousseau/Nicker.
And and then sheeples reckoning that he could have either:
1/0
1 some fun
0 me out
over this (dependent on ego-level).
what a wanker.
tried to prove me wrong but missed my point by a cuntry mile.
nothing unusual about such ignorance, pub quizzes are made of such wondrous stuff.
follow him blindly all you wish, empty heads have been doing that shiz for millenniae ;)
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 22:42, closed)

http://www.b3ta.com/questions/conversationkillers/post1207754
It's rather odd in that post that it's unclear whether it's your or your mystery source who is so very talented. You can see how the conclusion that it was you was formed.

I'm not a french student, but I am utterly sure that crying about it being a yokel's phrase, is hardly the way forward. Quite clearly it can be used in both forms, and it's a matter of preference. At the most your point bears the same sort of hopeless rage that marks members of society who are reduced to tears that no-one puts the apostrophe before fridge anymore.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 19 May 2011, 0:44, closed)

"...reduced to tears that no-one puts the apostrophe before fridge anymore."
I think I love you.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Thu 19 May 2011, 8:46, closed)

We're talking about language and I quote three dictionaries.
You absolutely fucking ridiculous prick.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 0:02, closed)

better make it salted ;)

( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 21:07, closed)

attempt? if i was trying to offend on the basis of being french i would ask why your partner wears a yellow scarf, or something like that.
yes, both structures are "acceptable", never suggested otherwise. learn to read, not project your own bias.
my source, whilst familiar with problems (goes with being human), is neither the snob you hint they may be, or indeed male. (i'll say no more than that about her to reduce the likelihood of you trolling off and getting all stalky again.)
perhaps if i type slowly enough you'll pick it up this time...

"i've checked with a reliable source and know that i am correct in saying that if you choose to ignore the definite article in the phrase in question then you are indicating clearly that you are a yokel, a bumpkin.
sorry, i meant utter yokel."

and just to be sure you notice the important (yet somehow blindingly confusing) parts...

"...correct in saying that if you choose to ignore the definite article...then you are indicating clearly that you are a yokel, a bumpkin."

an actual, genuine and relevant quote from a scholar and linguist who understands and appreciates the linguistic difference between something tangible, solid like a staircase and something intangible, like the concept of enterprise.
unlike your good self.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Wed 18 May 2011, 20:20, closed)

My first reply to this thread was "It's either."
You then made a ridiculous prick of yourself. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

There's really nothing more to it than that.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 0:01, closed)

This argument is basically saying
"I'm more intelligent/less offended than you"

Online.
( Major Turd for tonight only, Thu 19 May 2011, 1:32, closed)

Dude, save your speeches for Parliament.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 19 May 2011, 1:43, closed)

The thing is Blaireau69
There are plenty of people on /talk who would actually quite like to see Shambles come a cropper in an argument.

This one looked like it had some legs for a minute but then you just started insulting him and he started quoting sources at you proving that you were wrong.

You see how it works now?

Good luck next time.
( WormuIus, Thu 19 May 2011, 8:50, closed)

I'm just going to spit at you.
*hhoooooooock* *HOOOOOOOOCCCCCKKKKKKKKK*
( Amorous Badger NAKED BEA ARTHUR PHOTOS 4U, Thu 19 May 2011, 10:11, closed)

I don't think the lady with the big belly on the bus was French
...If that helps.
( sneep used to date Freddie Starr's hamster, Thu 19 May 2011, 10:33, closed)

I hate to weigh in to someone else's argument, but...
...my french grammar book says this:
In the case of compound nous (Noun1 + Preposition + Noun2) the second noun, connected to the first noun by a preposition, is usually not preceded by an article.

une verre de vin - a glass of wine
une tasse de café - a cup of coffee
une guide d'ordinateur - a computer guide
une histoire d'amour - a love story
une salle de bains - a bathroom

It says "usually", but the examples given are all perfectly normal. No-one would ever dream of saying 'une salle des bains', or 'une histoire de l'amour' (or they might, but it would have another meaning).
(Smale is stuffed, Thu 19 May 2011, 10:39, closed)

You don't hate it. You love it. You slag.
Both general forms (noun preposition noun and noun preposition article noun) are common but as you (or your book) say, the literal meaning is different. My medium-fat Larousse gives a couple of dozen examples of each form just for the word esprit.

Thus quoth the wordnerds of expressio.fr:

www.expressio.fr/expressions/avoir-l-esprit-de-l-escalier.php
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Thu 19 May 2011, 10:53, closed)

oh dear.

( janet aylia y'all motherfuckers need jesus, Wed 18 May 2011, 13:05, closed)

Lady who used to work with me
Who was roly poly and a bit unpopular.

On the way to a meeting on the train once, when she actually WAS pregnant, she had a moan on a carriage full of people because no one had stood up to offer her a seat.

One bloke then gets up from his seat, and says 'Sorry, love, I'd have offered you mine if I knew, but I thought you were just really fat.'

Best response ever...
(SnowyTheWereRabbit the Leporid from Hell, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:50, closed)

unless there is a baby actually emerging from a lady's fanny, NEVER assume pregnancy.

( janet aylia y'all motherfuckers need jesus, Tue 17 May 2011, 16:57, closed)

I think asking her to lift her skirt would have made the whole thing worse...

( sneep used to date Freddie Starr's hamster, Tue 17 May 2011, 17:00, closed)

I can usually tell by the shape of the belly.
But still never say anything until it's confirmed.
If you do want to offer your seat to a woman you think is pregnant and she asks why simply say "because I'm old fashioned" or similar and tell her it's because she's a woman or, if you care what "femenists" think about that, say "I'll be sitting down all day." or similar.
(Me, I'm not... in any way intoxicated, Tue 17 May 2011, 17:30, closed)

That's good advice...
But I find saying "No, you just look like you might topple and hurt someone behind you." works well, too.
(Chickenwire social lubricator extraordinaire, Wed 18 May 2011, 5:50, closed)

Or simply be honest, instead of pandering to the feelings of someone who looks like they'd eat you if they were given a bottle of ketchup, and say
"Because you look like you're pregnant."
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 18 May 2011, 12:07, closed)

"Well... Would you like to be?"

( IHaveABadFeelingAboutThis most likely working from home on, Tue 17 May 2011, 17:15, closed)

schmoooooooth

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Tue 17 May 2011, 17:21, closed)

I've done this
My response was to say "oh, OK" and sat back down and continued reading my book.
(ParaSitius is an Optimistic Pessimist, Wed 18 May 2011, 10:04, closed)

Haha. Oh dear. I'd have said "Oh, sorry... have the seat anyway... take the weight off your feet."
( emergency_pants Today I smell of... tea tree, Wed 18 May 2011, 10:35, closed)

Hahahaha this
Followed with "Fatty".
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 18 May 2011, 12:07, closed)

I just tell them I am having a baby pie.

( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Wed 18 May 2011, 20:01, closed)