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# You talk of common sense.
Common sense tells me that if you allow 5,000 angry people to wander around the streets of London trying to make a point by non democratic means, who are then joined by 'rent-a-mob' and the Socialist Worker louts, then there is going to be trouble.
Please tell, how SHOULD that be dealt with?
(I helped save b3ta! TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 17:27, archived)
# ^this
(likeajackhammer, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 17:34, archived)
# In my mind this situation is analogous
to sitting watching until the milk boils over on the stove, then panicking and calling in the fire brigade. Too much, too late.
Clearly the current situation needs to be contained, and it will be, as it always is; with increasing violence, until it becomes too dangerous and unattractive for people to take part in any more.
And then everything will go back to how it was before. Realistically, the only thing that will come out of this is tougher laws, and as an isolated solution that's never worked before, and it never will in the future, unless those laws are so severe and draconian as to allow no possibility of dissent. Do you want to live in a society like that? I suspect not.
(I helped save b3ta! mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 17:45, archived)
# agreed
i'm sat in work wondering what happened to my seemingly normal colleagues who apparently now would be happy to have a curfew in place in London backed up by the army with shoot-to-kill orders. WTF? I get the fact that people are angry and scared, but seriously, the army on the street?
(prostheses, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 17:48, archived)
# We make the laws.
What was the turnout in Tottenham at the last general election? How many candidates were there? The ability to change society is in place. Up to you if you use it, but don't come smashing my windows if you don't and then don't like the result.
(I helped save b3ta! TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 17:55, archived)
# Do you really believe this?
"The ability to change society is in place"

because, unless you're an ex-public school, Oxbridge-educated, silver-spoon sucking toff, it really isn't to all practical ends.

Look at the make up of Government, look at the key influencers of Goverment and legislation (step forward Mr Murdoch), look at the transfer of wealth to the top 0.5% of the population in the last 20 years, look at the level of inequality in society since the second world war (or even the first). then wonder why huge sections of society are balanced on a knife edge.
(prostheses, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 18:00, archived)
# Damn right i believe it.
Show me where you were stopped from voting for the person of your choice, or even standing for yourself for election. Show me.

EDIT: This country allows the Monster Raving Looney Party to stand. Don't try to say you can't be represented.
(I helped save b3ta! TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 18:13, archived)
# I hope you're being facetious.
"Democracy" doesn't work that way. In my local elections, there were no Green candidates, no MRLP. I had a choice of one LibDem, two Labour, two Tories and some crank from UKIP.

There's also the fiasco of how three votes can become the majority of ten (if the votes split 3/2/2/1/1/1 across the candidates.)

Also, what's more democratic than mob rule?
(xaer0mancer, Tue 9 Aug 2011, 22:33, archived)
# So why didn't you stand?
A vote is a privilege we are lucky enough to have in this country, but that does promote a propensity to say 'I voted' and use that as an example of (practically passive) engagement in the political process. Which it is (an engagement that is), but if you want a Green or MRLP candidate in your constituency and there isn't one, then get in touch with them and offer to stand. Instead of whining that it's so unfair that the policies you support aren't represented, represent them.

I still haven't made my mind up about AV though. It feels fair, but it also feels like nothing would get done with it in place. Maybe I'll have made up my mind by the time the referendum comes around.

Oh.

I've been listening to Ghost Town tonight.
(I helped save b3ta! gingerfreak Why? Why not., Tue 9 Aug 2011, 23:04, archived)
# You can fuck off as well.
(I helped save b3ta! 4Q just lurking, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 0:04, archived)
# Oh, and the mob has nothing to with democracy
as you surely know, you lovely trollomancer you.
(I helped save b3ta! gingerfreak Why? Why not., Tue 9 Aug 2011, 23:07, archived)
# So it is 'their' fault.
They are you. You are they. If you had wanted, you could have had 150 candidates. All you need to do is get off your arse, along with 149 friends, and stand. Perhaps the Green party didn't stand in your area because the Green Party knew that nobody in your area was interested in the Green Party. For good reason; the Green Party haven't a clue. As for the split vote; there was a democratic effort to change the entire voting system recently. About 30% of people bothered, and only about 10% of them understood it.
You can get off yer bum and riot, or get off yer bum and change it.
(I helped save b3ta! TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 0:00, archived)
# Yes. Because we all have access to huge amounts of money to back our political campaigns.
We're just being feckless.
(I helped save b3ta! 4Q just lurking, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 0:12, archived)
# If you are in the right
you will get plenty of support, easy. If you are in the wrong, the people with money might not support you. Tell me your policies. Tell everyone. Let us see if everyone agrees. Most people on here have an icon, so have disposable cash.
(I helped save b3ta! TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Wed 10 Aug 2011, 1:42, archived)
# Damn fucking straight you are
If you have a problem get up off your arse and solve it. Sundae is spot on, its not someone else's problem. It's yours.
(I helped save b3ta! Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Wed 10 Aug 2011, 11:14, archived)