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# you may choose to believe
whatever makes you feel most secure, smug and content..
(I helped save b3ta! beaubodor blogless, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:11, archived)
# That's your job
with your secure, smug and content political prejudices.

Nicely stereotyped, fed to you by the BBC and the Grauniad, no need for nasty, messy thinking.

Just hate Bush, hate America, hate Blair, hate liberal democratic societies. So easy.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:14, archived)
# If no-one criticised,
it wouldn't _be_ a liberal democracy would it? Not one worthy of the name, anyway.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:16, archived)
# Yeah, but
there is more to intellect than mere mindless criticism.

There is also perspective and the study of history and geopolitics -- which are entirely lacking from the kneejerk stereotypical opinions posted here.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:17, archived)
# Beau and Co. aren't usually mindless in their criticism.
There is a lot of "Bush is teh suck" on here, but you know to dismiss that as noise. Coming back at someone with "You hate democracy" is pretty mindless itself, when you know perfectly well that they don't.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:22, archived)
# They may not hate democracy as such
but by constantly attacking people who support democracy, they are helping the enemies of democracy ... and that is wrong.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:25, archived)
# *blinks

are you being serious or just fishing?
(I helped save b3ta! Attila the Bun is not in a right cunt of a mood, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:26, archived)
# this is great!
haven`t seen a good rant on here in ages
(I helped save b3ta! Reckless_Rik, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:27, archived)
# :)
In a "I really having no idea what the fuck I'm talking about" sort of way
(I helped save b3ta! Attila the Bun is not in a right cunt of a mood, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:31, archived)
# you racist anti-spastic err.. anti-European spider hating err..

eh?
(I helped save b3ta! Reckless_Rik, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:38, archived)
# I'm enjoying it
Whilst I don't agree per se, evil pundit is presenting an argument that is rarely aired. The public thinks what the public is told to think.

Personally, I wouldn't be throwing that criticism at bob odour though...

(I helped save b3ta! Wasp Box like a nervous random stranger at a glory hole, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:40, archived)
# I suggest you read some history
and learn.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:29, archived)
# I suggest you just learn to read
then you might understand
(I helped save b3ta! Attila the Bun is not in a right cunt of a mood, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:32, archived)
# Nonono,
it's _not_ wrong to attack and critise politicians. They _need_ criticising, they _need_ opposing, that's what democracy is, that's how it works. If you don't oppose them you just end up with what is functionally a dictatorship. I have no time for this reverence for politicians crap, they need kicking from time to time, it reminds them who's in charge: "We The People," to borrow a phrase from a certain document.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:29, archived)
# That's one side of the picture
The other side, which B3tans lack, is an appreciation of the general conditions that people have lived under throughout history, and just how good we have it compared to most.

Without that perspective, the critique is mindless and irrelevant.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:32, archived)
# Please do not tarnish all us B3tans with the same brush
I believe that in itself could be classed as a form of oppression against individual thought
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:34, archived)
# "Most", then.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:36, archived)
# you used that before too
and while I have absolutely no desire to get into this particular debate, with the greatest of respect, you have no idea whatsoever what "most" b3tans think, feel or say. You just get the odd comment or picture from perhaps a third of b3tans to go on.
So please, don't generalise like that.
(I helped save b3ta! mr horrible up yours, dickface, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:39, archived)
# Generalisation has its hazards
... but I think that some judgements can be formed from what B3tans say, and how they react to certain things.

When someone posted "Reservoir Wogs" the other day, the board erupted in condemnation. But I don't see such condemnation for the unfair and hurtful things directed against some nationalities on this board (see the US flag toilet roll at the top of this page, for example).
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:47, archived)
# Although it can sometimes be mindless, true,
it's _never_ irrelevant; it's a basic right, it's a fundamental part of the process of democracy. It's Voltaire, defending to the death your right to be completely wrong. It's the 1st amendment. Without the critics, without the disagreement, democracy is meaningless, defanged, not worth defending. So by all means argue with Beau and me, but don't ever accuse us of working against democracy and not appreciating it. We ARE democracy.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:38, archived)
# and sexy too
(I helped save b3ta! Reckless_Rik, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:39, archived)
# Good point.
I just wish that sometimes the bad guys would cop a bucketing, and not just our side.

Sigh.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:41, archived)
# I agree with you there.
Probably because Saddam and Osama and Co. have much smaller PR departments, there's a lot less material to work on.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:45, archived)
# Yeah, well
I think I'll go to bed now, and dream of photoshopping kittens.

Which is what I'd really rather do here -- there's enough politics elsewhere.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:49, archived)
# G'night.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:51, archived)
# WTF
Has America got to do with democracy?
(p0zitr0n - phunarmically charged particle, detected at, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:59, archived)
# You've been around here too long to be serious.
So I assume you are joking and say ha.
(I helped save b3ta! dingochutney *parp*, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:16, archived)
# I wish it were true
But he has been banging on so long, its either a joke worn thin or a control freak forcing his opinions on us.

Either way I say "Yawn"

...Well, I dont say yawn, I just yawn, but you get the idea...
(I helped save b3ta! OneSullenBrit *air sandwiches*, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:17, archived)
# From now on I shall say 'yawn' when I yawn!
yawn, weird word. Anyway, enough political bantering, I go food now.
(I helped save b3ta! dingochutney *parp*, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:18, archived)
# Or the lone voice of dissent
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:19, archived)
# *yawns*
see, that's how it's done
Get off my hat!
(I helped save b3ta! Lord Keeps meaning to procrastinate., Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:19, archived)
# i'm sorry
the guardian hates liberal democratic societies now? blimey, i must not understand it at all.
(I helped save b3ta! eponymous Oh!, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:16, archived)
# ..
www.b3ta.com/board/5152291
(I helped save b3ta! beaubodor blogless, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:17, archived)
#
www.b3ta.com/board/5152291
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:18, archived)
# ..
www.b3ta.com/board/5152314
(I helped save b3ta! beaubodor blogless, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:19, archived)
# cheer up
www.b3ta.com/board/5148691
Get off my hat!
(I helped save b3ta! Lord Keeps meaning to procrastinate., Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:20, archived)
# *ahem*
www.b3ta.com/board/2044350
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:20, archived)
# Heheheheh,
red handed.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:24, archived)
# Yeah, one post attacking Hillary
... now how many has Bobodor done attacking Bush? 200? 300?

Hardly in the same class, is it?
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:27, archived)
# You shouldn't really be casting stones though,
even if you only did it once. It doesn't help the case.
(tomsk, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:31, archived)
# Maybe not, but 1 does not equal 300
and that is one of the facts that some people here fail to grasp. There are degrees, not just absolutes.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:34, archived)
# but who sets the degrees, in the grand scheme of things,
does producing 300 thought processes using technicques taught and freely available in a free and deomcratic society really have any relevance when judged against just one.
Simply, the notion of 'freedom' of speech throughout a chosen medium is what shows that as a 'civilised' nation we can take such critique and move on - its doesnt mean to say that 300 posts represents the majority - we have the choice of 'not listening or reasoning and following our own path' - to a greater degree than most do
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:38, archived)
# Yes, we do
and I just wish that people would acknowledge that, instead of saying that our society is fascist and our elected leaders are Nazi murderers.

There are really bad people in the world, who deserve that kind of characterisation far more than our own politicians.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:43, archived)
# and they do get it, BUT (and this is a big but)
the 'bad' guys as you so call them, do often tend to come from modertaly or greatly impoverished societies themselves
(consider the likes of many african dictators - Mugabe for instance)
If we start taking the mic out of them on a greatly enhanced platform, there is always someone, somewhere in our society who will denounce us as 'the devil incarnate' for taking the piss out of an impoverished nation, claiming 'you dont live there, what do you know' the fact is, we live HERE, hence, we KNOW what we're in, and it makes it far easier to mock what we know, and get away with it. It doesnt mean its right, but at least we ain't getting shot at for speaking our mind and testing the society we live and believe in


I think it all comes down in the end to one simple phrase...

"If they're big enough, and powerful enough, they can take it"
and most of the time, i believe its a simple as that
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:46, archived)
# cheers
www.b3ta.com/board/5152441
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:50, archived)
# Don't be down mate - its what free speech is all about :)
Catch you on the 'moro
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:50, archived)
# May I draw your attention to one of your front pages in your profile...
'Hitlary Clinton'?????

yes, as you said, its SO easy to hate americans isnt it....
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:18, archived)
# Aaah, but thats different.
He did that, so its ok.

Its only wrong when someone else does it.
(I helped save b3ta! OneSullenBrit *air sandwiches*, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:20, archived)
# Also
Hillary Clinton actually did kill six million Jews and invade Poland, France, Czechoslovakia etc and form alliances with Stalin, Franco and Mussolini.
(Wong Fei-Hung - now with added flickr.com (see profile), Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:23, archived)
# However did she find the time to do all that
AND govern America...
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:25, archived)
# Yeah
Now let's see someone entering the compo with a post that isn't just a thinly disguised hate rant against Americans ...
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:21, archived)
# ..
www.b3ta.com/board/5149547
(I helped save b3ta! beaubodor blogless, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:23, archived)
# Great, that's one
only 348 to go, to balance your total.
(Indole Ring, Thu 22 Sep 2005, 12:27, archived)