What a bunch of cunts the Conservatives are.
Annoys me that even if you do everything their education system asks of you, they still manage to treat you like a prick.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:05, Share, Reply)
George Obsbourne wouldn't work in Poundland.
That's for sure.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:11, Share, Reply)
their education system?
as for treating you like a prick, if you think having a job, any job, is worse than sitting on your arse, flicking the bean to jeremy kyle and becoming progressively less employable then that's your opinion.
I've interviewed and worked with several graduates over the last few years, the majority of whom think that somehow that bit of paper they drank their way towards makes them entirely capable of walking in to a well paying job and being treated like the dog's proverbials. In fact most can't organise themselves out of bed in the morning let alone actually being given responsibility in the work place.
We take a decidedly dim view of people with long periods of unemployment in my office. If you're struggling, take any job (and I mean any), if you're still struggling then volunteer.
Some people get treated like a prick because the hat fits
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JeremyBeadlesHands, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:15,
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Actually I think she's being treated like a prick by not being paid properly for the work she's done.
But thanks for your outburst.
IDS sort of reminds me of Stephen from Django Unchained. Treated like shit by his masters, yet somehow still in awe of the Bullingdon club. Perhaps he's been promised a nice house in the Cotswolds.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:28, Share, Reply)
^this
Poundland obviously need the work done, yet they're not paying people to do it.
This scheme has turned the entire unemployed labour force into a vast pool of indentured servants. If you refuse to do your allotted job then your subsistence is taken from you - in contravention of Article 4 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:38,
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Article 4.
"No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms."
They were asked to work. They were receiving payment in the form of benefits. They could get out of this arrangement any time by getting a job.
This is manifestly not slavery, and comparing it to slavery is frankly pretty offensive when you consider that it is still a real issue elsewhere in the world.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:52,
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To receive monetary benefits as payment for 'voluntary' work is against the law.
If she was being paid the benefits money for her work then she is in employment, and entitled to receive all the legal protection of an employee.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 19:31, Share, Reply)
I could argue the point about who makes the law
and the fact that the courts didn't rule it illegal for that aspect, but hey, you know better about that don't you? However the fact you chose to make that point as a counter-argument to my saying it has nothing to do with slavery is... well... baffling frankly.
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evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:32,
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well, if that case has changed volunteering law then that's important.
The UDHR covers indentured servants. The person was neither a volunteer nor an employee. A volunteer gives their time voluntarily. They can work as little and as much as they want. In the case of community work as part of a court sentence, that free labour is not volunteer work. This person was forced to give free labour of a required amount because they were claiming benefits - the benefits were not given as a wage. And as they were placed into a profit-making company, this is slavery by another name.
If this case has changed the law, and volunteers can both be forced to work a required amount and can be given monetary benefits in payment for their work, then this will radically impact the voluntary sector and would create a loophole in the right to a minimum wage and other employment rights.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:56, Share, Reply)
She was fucking volunteering.
This is the whole point of why this was a story.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:30, Share, Reply)
is there a danger that someone could "volunteer" at a non job and still claim benefits
i.e. sit with their mate at a comic shop etc.
Just wondering, not basing it on anything I've read as this would be a logical reason to clamp down on the volunteer versus work - benefits thing.
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HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:01,
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I think the job needs to be approved/supplied by the job centre first
There's a fair bit of red tape. I was forced into free labour at a warehouse under the same rules 10 years ago. It was awful.
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mookay immune to icons since, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:13,
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The problem is that there is a shortage of volunteer roles in the charity sector
With a lack of jobs (especially low-paid part-time work), many students and graduates volunteered to gain work experience. The volunteer sector did not have enough volunteer managers nor charities to receive the influx.
This is why the volunteer work you will get is basically doing a paid job for free in the service of a profit-making business while being treated legally as a volunteer.
Businesses have already been criticised for abusing the economic situation by using unpaid graduate internships as a source of free labour.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 19:39, Share, Reply)
^^This
I have a degree in Chemistry, yet I never felt I was "entitled" to a cushy job when I left University with only a summer job at Electronics Boutique to show on my CV.
I have lost count of how many Oxbridge grads I have known who sulk and quit every job after a week because the people who run the company didn't offer them a managerial role after week one. I pity the spoilt generation who grew up under Blair and who think their human rights extend to doing what they like and getting rewarded for not killing themselves through their own stupidity by the end of the day.
If this scheme can get them into even a menial role, I think those of us who are paying for their living by actually doing some paid work would feel less inclined to label them all scavenging whingers. If it helps them get a job and gets them off their ivory towers, then how is it any different to the old YTS, after all?
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:31, Share, Reply)
I do see where you're coming from, but if you look at it from the point of view of a state school student who does everything a Conservative education secretary would deem right, works incredibly hard, gets into Oxbridge without the aid of daddy's donation, slogs themselves on a cunting hard course and then comes out only for people like yourself and the gent above to tell them they're an aspirational cunt - I can sort of see both sides.
Oxbridge grads, as 'privileged' as they seem, do work fucking hard. The academic rigours of their courses put most other degrees to shame, quite frankly. My cousin got in from a state school to study medicine and her workload was insane. Most people in jobs wouldn't be prepared to do it, I'm quite sure of that.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:42, Share, Reply)
this gent above
was an aspirational cunt who worked hard, went to a good uni and has got a (reasonably) good job.
I've been there and done it, and I would never tell anyone they are an 'aspirational cunt' as you so eloquently put it.
Following your dreams is one thing, sitting on your arse till you land the job of your dreams is quite another.
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JeremyBeadlesHands, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:06,
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Apologies.
I worked hard, got into to a Russell Group Uni and, like most, had to take a minimum wage job when I graduated. That is the reality of it; I'm not deluded to that.
However, contrast IDS's attitude here with that of Gove's - who wants people to aspire to do tougher, more traditional subjects at University, and consequently wants to toughen the education system to prepare them for that. And If you have graduates coming out being quite aggressively told - 'look, you're not above shelf stacking in Poundland'; as if they've done something wrong with aspiring to better - you almost think what is the point of being educated in the first place.
I just see that as a terrible attitude.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:24, Share, Reply)
yeah
I see that, but it's just the reality of things at the moment isn't it?
An awful lot of people are entering the labour force with degree's now, and they are really not prepared for the work place. I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who turn up to an interview at the age of 21/22 and it's for their first ever job, barely a paper round to their name.
Gove is, in effect, trying to deal with this at the university end, IDS isn't really focused on that side of things, more on the 'NEET's, it just so happens that a number of graduates are now falling in to this category too.
e2a: I don't think it would be a bad thing if people really thought about higher education a bit more either. What will you get out of it, what will it enable you to do in 3/4 years time that you can't start doing now? Too many people seem to want to go to university because all their peers are.
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JeremyBeadlesHands, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:30,
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I don't really know where I stand on it.
I think there's degrees and there's degrees isn't there. I'm sure people high-up who read CVs realise that too. If you've got into a good Uni Of through getting good grades, then why not. But if you've got in to do Football Science at Former Polytechnic University, then maybe you should have a think if it's worth it.
That said, it would be wrong to say 'you can only attend an education institution if you're smart enough' - because there's no denying those from a more privileged background have a better start in that department. Maybe we should follow the German Fachhochschule education system where more vocational courses are entirely separate but equal to more traditional academic subjects like Chemistry, and consequently you come out with a different degree. I guess the danger is that it would create a two tier education system, but I think at least people would be able to find what they're more suited to.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:49, Share, Reply)
The problem with disinterest in 'lower' work is not confined to students. Its the reason farmers will use immigrant labour, because even uneducated Brits think they are entitled to the best.
I've known many students who worked their ass off in cheap and dirty jobs. And I know these same students would not like being forced into the same work for free in order to receive benefits.
There's a guy I know of who was an international jetsetter, extremely well-paid, but when his company went bankrupt in the recession and he could find no other work he settled for a low-paid cleaning job at M&S. I think he would also be enraged if the benefits agency placed him into similar work, but as a 'volunteer', in return for benefits.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 19:51, Share, Reply)
Shelf stacking is above geology?
That's not a Gneiss attitude at all
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The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:04,
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ok..
I was born to working class parents who scrimped and saved to support me through my education when I won a scholarship to the local public school. I went to Uni and appreciated the fact most employers wanted 12 months work on my CV when I graduated before offering me a decent role, so I got a job in a tech support call centre at £10k a year when I left and did my time.
I resent the graduates who think that a piece of paper signifying three years Media Studies gives them a right to a lifestyle they can't afford. I also appreciated the fact that there were about 5 jobs in the UK going for chemistry graduates and that most of the pharma companies tended to cherry-pick the best graduates and expect them to prove themselves via internships before they invested lots of money letting them loose in their labs. This girl basically had to do a bit of work she felt was somehow beneath her and threw a hissy fit. Fine, she doesn't have to work but neither should I and other taxpayers have to fund her consequence free lifestyle because she doesn't like it. Especially when most people are struggling to make ends meet.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:25, Share, Reply)
"Especially when most people are struggling to make ends meet."
Are they struggling more because...
* They pay too much tax, around 0.65% of which goes on job seekers, almost 100% of which then gets spent on goods.
* The rich pay themselves more than they deserve and hoard it in a bank account.
* The more people who want a job, the easier it is to find someone to do that job cheaply.
How would forcing people into work help this situation?
Also, do you think you would have the same opportunities available to you if you had shit patents and shit schooling?
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 17:38,
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Forcing people into paid work is fine.
You first have to find those numerous jobs that supposedly exist.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 19:57, Share, Reply)
It won't get them into a job, the companies are just using them as free labour,
and it takes away the need for them to actually hire somebody to do the work.
I remember the last recession people had some sympathy for the unemployed, now it's just a competition to see who can hate them the most.
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Zuowan, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:46,
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in fairness...
Better they get their hands dirty for the benefit money and maybe it is cheap labour, but if it stops another slew of businesses going tits up in an economic downturn, it prevents even more people ending up on the dole. Actually, I have no problem with being asked to do something in return for the money being given.
Is it comparable to a nice job? No. Does it get them used to dragging their ass out of bed before midday and get them used.to a working routine? Yes.
One of the big issues with long term unemployed is that a lot get a job then bail out when it gets hard because they can go back on the benefit merry go round. It also makes them (marginally) more attractive to employers because they know the candidate is at least familiar with the concept of working a full day regularly.
Life is not a free ride and I for one think this scheme is fine. After all, its no worse than things like the 5 year plan Roosevelt used during the depression to keep people in the habit of working and doing some good for the wider economy.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 19:26, Share, Reply)
Working for benefits is employment. Are they therefore employed by the business or the benefits agency?
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:03, Share, Reply)
What if someone who was unemployed for a long period because of
mental illness? Would you treat them the same way?
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:32, Share, Reply)
One of my best friends has been off sick for a long period because of her mental health.
She doesn't live a life of riley on benefit at all. Each week is a struggle for her; she rarely gets out and lives such an unfulfilled life. I'm sure if she could wish away her troubles she would gladly replace the life she has now with that of a 'shelf stacker.'
I really don't like the way this government is demonising the word 'benefit.' Some people really bloody need it.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:36, Share, Reply)
Trouble is
they value people buy their economic worth...failing to see people contribute to society in many ways and judging them as worthless. Pisses me right off.
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moogy boobles, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:24,
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no
because they'd have very valid reasons for not being in work. the end.
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JeremyBeadlesHands, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:07,
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What if they watched Jeremy Kyle while they were sick? Would you be very angry and want to cull them?
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:15, Share, Reply)
yes
but that's a natural response isn't it?
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JeremyBeadlesHands, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:26,
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my dad
Was first registered disabled after an accident in 1981. He still worked because he wanted to support his family and had a work ethic. The fact is we have a generation of people who think the country owes them a living.
If all the jobs there are available involve stacking shelves, you stack shelves. That's the point being made. I might wish to be an astronaut, but because there isn't a job doing that doesn't mean I should sit on my ass taking benefits from the state untik one comes available.
When I have signed on in the past, I spent about a month or two looking for work and took the first thing I could to make ends meet. In fact, I recall the rukes back then being that if you refused to take a job the Job Centre found for you (regardless of what it was), you would be ejected from Jobseekers Allowance and not eligible for any benefits for 6 months and that was in 1998, so it's not a Tory thing.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:33, Share, Reply)
This is fuck all to do with shelf stacking
This is all to do with giving supermarkets and other huge corporate entities access to free labour under the guise of work experience.
If the shops need people to stack shelves they should employ more shelf stackers on the national minimum wage or higher. If someone has the opportunity to gain experience relevant to their degree while looking for work then good luck to them. I don't see them forcing their unpaid political interns into poundland.
As for implying that the disabled are in some way lazy if they are unable to work, go fuck yourself. I have spent my entire life working like a bastard in order to provide for my family. My wife has Cerebral Palsy and MS and can barely function most days let alone fucking work you arrogant twat.
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slartifartfast When all around are losing their heads, duck., Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:45,
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I run
workshops for people who suffer with mental health who are seeking employment/voluntary(long term and short term mental health). I'm contracted by a mental health charity and work with referrals from many different agencies.
The biggest problems I face are people with gaps in their employment, motivation, confidence and emotions around when dealing with judgmental people.
There is a percentage who drop out as they are not ready, the rest complete the course and generally go onto something else, but it depends where they are with their mental health.
The main advice I give to anyone on benefits is make use of the time, and sign up to free courses and qualifications, as there are shed loads out there and they can improve your chance of getting a job.
Its a hard job, fun and rewarding but not invested in enough. I currently have a high percentage of positive outcomes for my clients, higher then normal back to work workshops in my city. Mine is simply not plonk in front of a computer and get on with it, mines a psycho educational approach and it seems to work.
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The invisible ham Fig rolls are the best, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:46,
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The mentally ill should be forced to work as politicians in Parliament
...things may be better.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:07, Share, Reply)
possibly the best
suggestion i have heard in a long time
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The invisible ham Fig rolls are the best, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 22:27,
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What they replied above
Being forced to work thirty hours a week for six months when she was volunteering somewhere where she would get a lot more practical experience than shelving cans of baked beans given her educated background makes her potentially a far more useful member of society in the long run than yet another brain dead super market employee, to be blunt, than some knee-jerk reaction to people on benefits with a pointless scheme to please the readership of the Daily Mail and Daily Express. I got my present job by volunteering first and was offered a job when they had seen my worth.
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Jahled Three shades of black, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:33,
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Your workplace sounds a laugh a minute.
"if you think having a job, any job, is worse than sitting on your arse, flicking the bean to jeremy kyle and becoming progressively less employable" is a false dichotomy.
Most people with strong ambition usually have to go through an unemployed phase to get there.
Achievable ambition should be encouraged and helped. "Get any job" does not do that.
I'm sure people's belief that it is somehow very important that everyone should have a job is merely a post-hoc argument formed to justify spending 70% of their lives doing something for someone else that they don't enjoy. Do any people who love their work get upset with the unemployed in the same way? Be interesting to know if there is any correlation between job satisfaction and dislike of the unemployed.
It is important that people who work are rewarded, but I don't see how everyone working would be in any way a good thing. There are not enough real jobs to go round as it is. What is done is important, not how many people are doing it.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:37,
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so you think it's acceptable
that some people should choose not to work, and others have to pay for them.
Why don't we all choose not to work? What's your selection process?
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JeremyBeadlesHands, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:09,
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False dichotemy again.
Do you really think "choosing not to work in an irrelevant job to your qualifications and trying to get a job on the first rung of the right ladder" is the same as "choosing not to work"?
Do you really think work done fairly relates to money earned?
Do you think people who work are more moral?
We don't all choose not to work because being on the dole is awful and shite and most people would rather have the money to support the nicer lifestyle. Does anyone work thinking "I am working purely to pay my share of tax"?
Conversely, why do you choose to work? What do you add to society through your work?
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:45,
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At the risk of making a slippery slope argument...
Do you think that people who do full time jobs should be allowed to, say, jump the queue for an operation on the NHS over people who do part time jobs. They have paid more for it.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:52,
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That's actually a very good point
Do we measure the value of a citizen based on their contributions in tax?
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Jahled Three shades of black, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:02,
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it's funny,
when I first left Uni I didn't claim benefits for the first two months because I thought I'd be able to get a job without that much difficulty and having "not paid in" I felt a bit bad about claiming it. At that point I discovered my parents' attitude had changed from "scroungers claiming benefits they haven't paid in for" to "we've paid into the system all our lives so you could claim it!"
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:09,
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Well, my Mum never paid tax. Never received benefits. Just became a drain on society being a mother.
Same with those people who do something nice for you without getting paid for it - total scum.
Now, the sales person who pestered my Grandma and bullied her into things she didn't need, well he was a model citizen, he paid tax aplenty. Just like those saints who run cold call centres.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:24, Share, Reply)
I have barely any ambition at all,
and I still had to go through an unemployed phase to get there.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:01,
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My ambition is to just sit around
reading and messing around on the internet all day.
That's why it winds me up when people say it is easy to achieve that ambition via the dole and then not tell me how to actually do it.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:11,
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the fact that the number of unemployed
has gone up from 1.6M to 2.5M since 2008 ought to tell us that 900,000 people are now unemployed because of that bit of global financial trouble you might have heard about, and not just because they are lazy.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:20,
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I found it impossible to be lazy on the dole.
I was in a constant state of panic as to how much everything costs.
You need to be able to relax to be lazy.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:53,
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yeah it gave me good habits though,
I still balk at the idea of paying for anything I don't really need.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 17:16,
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the amount of time you have to furiously masturbate is what relaxes you
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:27, Share, Reply)
The hatred of the unemployed comes at a time when people have been forced into unemployment due to economic conditions
The rise in the number of unemployed includes those who previously worked. There are simply less jobs than before.
Take it to an absurdity, imagine if there were only 100 jobs in the country. Would the millions of unemployed be therefore morally wrong?
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:14, Share, Reply)
Yup
Also, this is a article is very pointedly slanted against IDS. The BBC isn't supposed to take sides: it's why the Tories hate them so much and it could bring the whole place down.
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After you my dear Alfonse No. After you., Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:37,
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I tend to agree
Working for free is pretty horrible, but can sometimes lead to a job. As an employer myself, the person who comes for an interview and says they get up on a cold morning and put in a good 8 hours for no reward is already half-way to getting a job with me. Of course, sadly some will be exploited. (I mean by the system, not me.)
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:38,
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Some people could do that 8 hours
work in 2 hours.
It is strange we still judge work in hours done when most work can no longer be valued that way. It must be an after-effect of when most jobs were factory based and hours in did mean product out.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:52,
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This is very true
and was meant more as a turn of phrase about 'work ethic'. In fact, none of my employees has set hours. If I consider what they have done a decent day's work, then they are free to go home. Alternatively they work late for no extra pay. I'm probably a shit boss, but seem to have no trouble recruiting.
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:21,
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I was actually thinking about something related to this on the way home this afternoon,
back in Adam Smith's day it made sense to think of money as a measure of human labour. These days it's probably closer to the mark to think of money as a measure of energy.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:24,
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Not sure it has ever been a measure of human labour.
It is a status symbol, which is why I'm sure places without a welfare system still treat the unemployed badly without the "we pay for them" argument, and also why people who have a go at the unemployed rarely have a go at people who earn too much. It keeps a class system going.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:46,
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Why the fuck should Poundland want to keep any of these people on and pay their wages
When they can just get another bunch to replace them for free.
If the companies were paying their wages with some form of government tax relief, I could understand, but the scheme appears to be a great way of funneling super cheap labour into big corporations, for obvious reasons.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:54, Share, Reply)
this,
if poor Joe Blogs isn't entitled to his £60 a week I don't see why Poundland is entitled to 30 hours x £6.19 an hour (minimum wage), which is about three times as much, if you do the maths.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:06,
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anyone too stupid to cover up periods of unemployment on a CV
is not someone I'd interview anyway.
'Travelling' is a common euphemism.
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feckler https://twitter.com/LeonardEctric1, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:50,
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I love how some people think that having a management job makes them better than other people.
They probably don't want to take responsibility in your office because the work you give them is an utter waste of everyone's time, and they haven't yet swallowed their shame and started pretending to take it seriously because they need the money for the survival of their offspring.
Volunteer work is unpaid (duh!) and means you can't claim benefits. People need money to survive. You prick.
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Zuowan, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:54,
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Your first paragraph made me laugh.
Got me thinking that most management jobs rarely require specific qualifications, just a certain type of arrogance, an average intelligence and probably a middle class background.
People who have that type of job are unlikely to understand the drive that is in people who desire to work in a specific field, as they are far more likely to be financially motivated in their own goals.
They may not understand why someone would not take any job, but I bet they could not understand why someone would take a lesser paid but more relevant job, either.
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monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:27,
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People who have never been unemployed
also seem to overestimate how easy it is to get "any job". I was unemployed for two years before I got a part time job as a receptionist. The problem is, a degree doesn't even qualify you for "any job". I was turned away at the door by umpty agencies on the grounds of not having any experience. Even the ones that did take me onto their books never found me any work.
I discovered, in the end, that if I left my degree off my CV I actually got far more interviews. Despite not covering the gap with anything.
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Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:32,
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Yep
they are indeed...I had the pleasure of telling Cameron to his face once. Felt bloody good.
Trouble is even if you apply, people won't give these jobs to the overqualified anyway! They had a brain surgeon on the books of my local Jobcentre for a good while recently.
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moogy boobles, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 13:59,
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I applied for a job I had 7 years experience of the other day
they didn't even reply :(
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HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:04,
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I applied for one like that
I had the qualifications and the experience. They didn't reply, so I rang them. No word of a lie, the guy said to me "To be honest I saw your CV. You'd be bored shitless here and leave after a month."
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:27,
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to be honest I have turned people down for the same reason.
People want people who are either qualified for the job or nearly qualified (as they're cheaper and more malleable). 'Over qualified' is not a contradiction. Why hire someone who doesn't really want the job but is just desperate? they WILL leave as soon as something better comes along. And if they don't, they are a threat to the person who hired them.
Cold logic, but logic tends to be.
edit: tailor your CV to the role, don't assume they'll be dazzled by your achievements when they might actually be intimidated. And if you really want the job, LIE for fuck's sake. A CV is just a thing that gets you an interview. An interview is just a thing that gets you a job. Being good at it is what keeps you the job/progresses you, so if you know can do it then take the necessary steps to make sure steps 1 & 2 work to your advantage.
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feckler https://twitter.com/LeonardEctric1, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:01,
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How do you know if they "don't want the job but are desperate"?
You're deliberately not hiring talented and capable people with experience in the field who are eager to work.
I'm sure it's not the case but it sounds more like you're scared they'd take your job.
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HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:09,
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well I am a freelance now so there's no job to take.
But when I was in-house would I purposely not hire someone who was potentially better than me at my role and might want it? Fucking too right.
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feckler https://twitter.com/LeonardEctric1, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:11,
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I get your point
but that same logic now suggests I will keep my current job for life because I'm not very good at it. Which isn't a cheerful thought!
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:09,
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not at all, it's a 1000% times easier to find a new job if you are already in one.
I'm really talking about people who are out of work and apply for jobs they are too good for.
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feckler https://twitter.com/LeonardEctric1, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:13,
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I must be in a minority and very lucky
because I would have to say everyone of my employees is a bit better than the role I have given them. But that does mean when there is a crisis, and there often is, I have one hell of a team at my disposal who up their game. Some might have ambitions on my position, but so what, keeps me on my toes and stops me sitting around posting on B3ta all da.....oops
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:23,
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We all rise to the level of our incompetence.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 18:19,
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Follow it up with a call or another letter.
Even if they tell you to piss off you might get some feedback out of it.
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Mu Dinofiddler, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 14:31,
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never a letter, always a phone call.
No-one replies to letters, and even if they did you will get a polite, considered response when you want an on-the-spot honest instant one.
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feckler https://twitter.com/LeonardEctric1, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 18:05,
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When I was a student you wanted a shelf stacking job
There were waiting lists at all the local supermarkets for one.
Well paid shift work and a staff discount.
Whats not to like?
So what if it's not your dream job.
You work towards that and in the meantime you have to eat.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:39,
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You HAD to bring reality into it didn't you?
People like you....
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TheSundaeLunch I'm a fucking shrub, alright?, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 15:46,
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I worked on building sites when I finished university
Which was fine, but after a year or so I decided I wanted to study music. After 6 months of signing on and studying a course not recognised as education, I was required by law to work for 4 days a week in a warehouse for free, which was run by 2 really bad guys. They would visit prostitutes during the day while I used the yellow pages to try and sell their knock-off goods. They sexually abused a 16 year old girl I worked with and the job centre accused me of lying "to get out of working" when I went in all guns blazing. Then I was sacked (if you can be sacked from a job you don't get paid for. I was lucky to come out of the whole thing and find a decent path, but they almost ruined me financially, and as a person.
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mookay immune to icons since, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:20,
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Also, the job centre always made it clear they believed I was trying to get out of working
The good news is, despite them actively trying to negate my ambition, I have spent the last 7 years achieving what what I wanted, and paying lots of tax. Blam.
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mookay immune to icons since, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:28,
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I worked shifts making cardboard boxes
whilst I studied web design at home. I did it because I had to feed my family. The point is I got paid fairly. Yes it was minimum wage and shit hours, but it kept me alive. I had to garnish the truth in my interview so they didn't know I was studying and dumbed down my CV to suit. I don't think they would have employed me knowing that I would eventually be leaving them for a better job.
She should have been paid a fair wage, maybe even just given a job (which she could do in the meantime like I did). Why wasn't this job an offer of employment rather than just a voluntary position? Does anyone know how much she would have been "earning" in relation to hours done vs JSA?
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Fadgebadger (1 like), Sun 17 Feb 2013, 16:45,
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IDS and the conservatives are Fuckwits!!
How to prove you're an idiot IDS and the cons - not admitting when you're wrong. I wish IDS would go back to stacking shelves......
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 17:44, Share, Reply)
I've always been a centre-left liberal.
But, during this double-dip recession I've found my mood constantly shifting from Thatcherite Conservatism to Militant Marxism.
I think during times of crisis you always have to be wary of what you initially think is right.
(, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 20:34, Share, Reply)
When I had my stint on the dole, I thought at the time that it would be a good idea to do community service (graffiti cleaning or some such) for an amount of time that would have added up to my benefit as if I was on minimum wage. I fail to see why big corporations should get free labour.
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ThunderThrust, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 18:25,
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"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."
Richard Buckminster Fuller 1970
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artifus is doing it all wrong, Sun 17 Feb 2013, 21:01,
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