No you fuck off
it's not like it's a 100% tax, is it?

Either pay the fucking tax and keep the house, or sell the house and still have a big wedge after tax.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:02, 2 replies, latest was 12 years ago)

I think the threshold should be a lot higher
Say £500,000
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:03, Reply)

it basically is
becuase it's per person, isn't it? so it's £650K if both your parents owned the place at some point.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:05, Reply)

I did not know this

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:07, Reply)

I didn't either, I think I found out from Chompy
but don't let him know, eh? wouldn't want the cunt getting ideas above his station and that.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:08, Reply)

My mother's 3-bed 80s house in Winchester
has a small garden and plastic windows. It's worth about £750k.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:06, Reply)

Fuck you then, future rich kid

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:07, Reply)

Is it built of solid gold?
My brother's place in Weybridge isn't worth near that and it's one of the most expensive residential postcodes in the UK
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:07, Reply)

She had it valued last year. It may have dropped a bit.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:09, Reply)

The property market is "well bent"

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:20, Reply)

*nods*

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:21, Reply)

I think if your folks have worked all their lives and have paid off their house and given it to you,
you should be able to fucking keep it. £300k is hardly Croesus material is it?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:05, Reply)

as above, it's basically £650K in most cases.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:06, Reply)

Not mine. And that's all I care about.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:09, Reply)

You'll only fritter it away on legal fees, anyway.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:10, Reply)

your mum in a civil partnership?

(PsychoChomp, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:14, Reply)

Nope.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:14, Reply)

I realised that sounded like a your mum joke.
Still get her down the chaple.
(PsychoChomp, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:15, Reply)

You saying I should take her up the aisle?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:19, Reply)

She'd rather be taken up the apse.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:22, Reply)

If this is the case.
it's £975K and Monty's buying all the rounds.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:15, Reply)

well, yes, it is
because you've got £325K from both parents. In different properties. presumably.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:14, Reply)

Hahahah my dad will leave nothing but debt.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:16, Reply)

well then. no point moaning about fair, is there?
rod. back. etc.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:16, Reply)

He taught me everything I know.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:19, Reply)

What have you done to earn that money? Nowt.
So why should you be rewarded for something your parents did?

First: nobody deserves to inherit wealth, property or money – their inheriting these things makes their lives go better than those who were not so lucky in the lottery of birth.

Second: it is important to the lives of people in a free society – both parents and children – that parents be able to leave an inheritance to their children.

These two things need to be traded-off against each other. The state can correct for the first by taxing inheritance. This adjusts for the unfair reward of material distributions allocated by the lottery of birth, and can be used to compensate those who were unlucky enough to be born to parents who couldn’t or didn’t leave them an inheritance. This is fair because receiving inheritance and the accruing benefits is itself fundamentally unfair.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:08, Reply)

What has 'fairness' got to do with anything?
If I have the good fortune to be related to someone who wants to give me a valuable gift, why has some scabby prick down the road that the gift-giver has never met got a right to a cut of it?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:13, Reply)

That's how countries work Monty
If you don't like it move to Somalia.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:21, Reply)

I would do ONLY I CAN'T AFFORD TO BECAUSE OF THE FAT CAT BANKERS

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:44, Reply)

and the blacks

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:45, Reply)

I bet you'd love to be a pirate.

(PsychoChomp, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:50, Reply)

If you want to live in a half decent country, you have to pay some tax.
It should probably be more, but no one wants to pay more.
If you want to get annoyed or complain about anything, focus on how that money is or should be spent.
But then you don't vote, do you?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:08, Reply)

Voting is gay.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:11, Reply)

Of course it is, didn't the Greeks invent it?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:14, Reply)

EXACTLY.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:14, Reply)

*votes for back-door smashing*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:15, Reply)

it's all about the goatfucking, sporters,

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:17, Reply)

*makes note*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:45, Reply)

Talking of not liking Greeks/gays/etc.
There was an interesting subject of R4's Great Lives yesterday - www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01m5jtk - Roman chap called Juvenal, who liked to "rant and rail against women, foreigners, gays and the upstarts who are all ruining Rome"
Reminded me of you.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:18, Reply)

I have studied Juvenal in depth, he was great.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:21, Reply)

with the greatest respect
try watching everything your parents have earned and saved for their retirement slowly disappear though secondary care payments because one of them, through no fault of their own, suddenly needs near constant home care, and consider what isn't and isn't fair.

TLiC and Tangles are right, no-one has earned the right to inherit shit. In that respect, life's a lottery and lotteries aren't fair.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:13, Reply)

This is what I was on about
My grandad wanted to give that money to us, not a fucking care home
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:14, Reply)

fuck what I would have got.
I just wanted my parents to have an enjoyable, financially sound retirement.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:16, Reply)

Really? I want mine to die and quick-smart.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:18, Reply)

harsh words, Boyce.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:19, Reply)

Inheritance is not something I wanted
as it meant my grandad had died. He wanted us to have it
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:28, Reply)

No, no - he should give it all to the state apparently.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:18, Reply)

it all 40% of it
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:19, Reply)

the arguments against it
would have more merit for me if the people making them had large sums of money/property to inherit. how many people would keep the view that you should "work for it, then share it amongst everyone when you die, rather than your own family", if they suddenly became in line to inherit a lot of cash themselves? very very few, if any.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:23, Reply)

Bollocks.
Being born into a wealthy family doesn't automatically make you a selfish cunt.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:25, Reply)

According to most hand-wringers on here it does.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:25, Reply)

This is rather a tired old line repeatedly trotted out by various people.
Some people do/would accept having to pay their share.
Crazy, I know - they'll never be massively wealthy with that approach.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:27, Reply)

Sour fucking grapes is what it is.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:28, Reply)

Meh
I think it's selfish to assume that you are somehow "entitled" to every single bit of money that comes your way purely by an accident of genetics. If I give you £20K tomorrow you still have to pay tax on it. How is inheritence any different from a gift?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:27, Reply)

I don't think you should have to pay it on a gift either.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:28, Reply)

what about on a salary?

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:34, Reply)

Absolutely.
You pay tax on that. After that, what you spend it on is yours and if you choose to give whatever that might be to someone else I genuinely fail to see why anyone else is entitled to any of it.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:38, Reply)

What about VAT?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:43, Reply)

What about DRE?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:43, Reply)

Oh man, I totally forgot!

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:48, Reply)

Did you not listen to his song?!

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:49, Reply)

I just assumed that he had sold all his guns or summat.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:50, Reply)

I heard that too
He just wants one more platinum plaque. Not much to ask, is it?
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:51, Reply)

Oh man I forgot about him

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:48, Reply)

Keep up back there.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:49, Reply)

Needs to push harder eh?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:51, Reply)

that's taking it to extremes
not wanting your entire estate to be divided up and shared amongst the masses is different to being a selfish cunt!

but do we really think people would still be preaching about the benefits of returning every generation to the £100k mortgage route if they were in line to inherit a £2M house? i don't believe it in the case of 99.9% of people. i think their principles would change in line with their expectations.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:29, Reply)

Which is why tax is imposed rather than voluntary.
It has been stated in various forms in this thread that no one likes it, but we do have to go along with it.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:31, Reply)

but the people saying that it should go far and above the current regime
would they still be saying that if they came from rich families, or if they won the lottery but couldn't give it to their own kids?

this is my cynicism with it, i think NOT.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:32, Reply)

Nobody's arguing with you
we're saying we should pay it anyway even though we don't want to.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:39, Reply)

well if nobody's arguing
what's the point?

your face smells.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:40, Reply)

it's called a nose, that's what it's for.

( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:42, Reply)

Amongst other things.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:43, Reply)

cf 'fat-cat salaries'
How many of the thousands of whingers who plague this country night and day would take a job paying them 1m a year and give all bar 30k (or whatever) away because that would be ‘fair’? The answer is about 3 – who are very nice but also clearly a bit mental.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:31, Reply)

Is that me, Al and Chompy?
Would have been four, but Foggsy is dead (4EVAINRHARTZ)
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:33, Reply)

RIP WILF, IN THE GREAT BIKE-CRASH IN THE SKY 4EVA

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:35, Reply)

yes
it is the same point. the whingers couldn't do that job, however much they want to bash said fat-cat.

of course, some of the fat-cats can't do the job either, but that's a matter for their employer...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:35, Reply)

There are people who whine too far, absolutely.
But arguing about what is and isn't a fair tax on money you've earned is a whole different game to what is and isn't a fair tax on money you've done absolutely fuck all to deserve.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:36, Reply)

straw man
Even at 60% tax you're keeping 400K. And there are any number of ways to keep more.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:40, Reply)

It's not "your" estate.
That is rather the issue, and that's what makes it default selfish. You didn't make or earn a single penny of it.

I think if you were in line to inheret a £2M house and you even moaned for one tiny second about merely getting £1.46M for doing absolutely fuck all, then you are a massively selfish cunt, yep.

I know I play the pretend socialist sometimes but this is something that I'm afraid I strongly believe in. And FWIW, my parent's house value does put me in the "taxed" category.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:33, Reply)

flip it round
if you've worked hard all your life, why shouldn't you be able to choose the beneficiaries of that work? people want to give their children and grandchildren something, not random strangers.

i agree that whinging about contributing something is selfish, sure. but that wasn't what i was talking about. the suggestion above was that everyone should effectively give everything away on death, and it's that point that i think would be dropped pretty sharpish if the person making it suddenly came in line to inherit a shedload.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:39, Reply)

link to the post saying everyone should effectively give everything away?
I appear to have missed that one. Perhaps the Invisible Communist Boogeyman has me on ignore 2.0.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:42, Reply)

Swipe shouldn't even be in this thread.
The whole thing should be invisible to her.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:47, Reply)

ah well
we don't always get what we want
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:49, Reply)

The Rolling Stones melancholy follow up single?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:50, Reply)

i can't
when i am posting via this logging out and logging back in again schtick.

it's been said up there and before though ^^

i agree with you, i think something should be paid to redress the balance, but you'll never find an amount that suits everyone.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:48, Reply)

The only person saying it is Monty
and he's arguing your side.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:52, Reply)

and I'm saying it wouldn't, because despite my natural cynicism
I am aware that the majority of people aren't actually selfish arseholes.

I'm not arguing everyone should give away it all on death (who said that?) but that a proportion is reasonable. If you wish to argue that you should be able to hand over what you've earned - no tax - by all means, I can work for that. It means you just get to hand over what you paid for your house and what you paid for your share portfolio, not what it is worth now. Becuase you didn't earn the rest. You acquired it purely from a combination of luck and the financial improvement of the economy of country you live in. The government of which now wishes some recompense for that fact.

You of all people should understand the inherent fairness of that, it's pretty much ubercapitalism. Money to those that TRUELY earned it. Of all the taxes there are, it's probably the fairest, because it only targets the wealthy specifically over money they didn't even earn.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:47, Reply)

The threshold should be increased a bit though
Originally this was a fat-cat type of tax and now it isn't
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:48, Reply)

It is now affecting fat cows too.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:51, Reply)

Not this one
My parents dont have that kind of cash
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Wed 29 Aug 2012, 11:52, Reply)