OK, look: "frictionless" trade requires institutions, and that requires regulation, and that requires membership of regulatory bodies. Bodies rather like those instatiated in, er, the EU. If you leave the EU, you have to build them all anew, and pretty darned quickly, too. And it's absurd to say that the EU doesn't want frictionless trade, given that it keeps on entering into trade agreements with other countries and blocs around the world in order to facilitate just that.
"They want our money" is simply absurd. Yes, there are contributor states and recipient states. But - holy fucking shitcastles! - the money that's paid out is overwhelmingly directed at things that'll raise the wealth of the recipient states, so that (a) they don't stay recipients, and (b) the people there'll be wealthy enough to buy stuff from the likes of us.
Do you complain about money from London or Manchester taxpayers being used to pay for welfare in Cornwall? Do you think that that's a reason for London or Manchester to declare UDI? No: because that's not how communities work. And if it's not how communities work on a state level, it's hard to see why it's how they'd work on a supra-state level. And don't forget that the EU has poured millions into regional development in places like Cornwall, as well as into things like fundamental scientific research elsewhere in the UK. I walk past the National Graphene Institute every day. It's EU-funded.
"Undemocratic" is a howler, given that the EU has no powers that it doesn't get from member states. Non-member-states have no such powers within it, but they still have to abide by EU standards to trade there. Meanwhile, when was the last time you voted for a representative to the WTO? (And we could turn this around, of course: if you think that it doesn't matter that we don't vote for representatives to the WTO, you've undermined your own argument about the EU's putative democratic deficit.)
Do I profit personally from being in the EU? That's impossible to say, but inasmuch as that I rely on a generally healthy economy - as do we all - and leaving the EU is likely to put at least a generational dent into that, then yes. Probably. So does pretty much everyone. And I also benefit intangibly, in terms of continent-wide peace and security, freedom to live and work, cultural flows, a general sense of belonging, and all the rest of it.
Or is all that just an instance of someone doing my thinking for me?
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:30,
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Christ, ardent remainers are boring.
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After you my dear Alfonse No. After you., Sat 19 May 2018, 15:17,
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Top quality rebuttal there.
You really showed him who’s got the most cogent argument.
No, wait. You didn’t.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 19 May 2018, 16:43,
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Come on. You didn't get through it either.
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After you my dear Alfonse No. After you., Sat 19 May 2018, 17:05,
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The "Undemocratic" rant always boiled my piss.
MEPs are directly elected, hence Farage. It's not the EU's fault if we generally don't give a shit about who gets in.
Council members are appointed by the member states, and the only reason we don't vote on those is because our government doesn't let us.
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jonbob loves you, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:18,
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