Of course
in this analogy, the 'shit' is rules that would close offshore tax havens and make the country pay attention to the environment and force companies to put up with workers that have rights. It is frictionless trade and having somewhere nice to retire even if you are not really rich.
I can see why ultra rich tories would want that 'shit' gone but I fail to see why anyone else would.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sat 19 May 2018, 8:43,
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The problem with an online connected world.
The amount of gullible, ignorant and thick twats tends to outnumber sensible folk. Misinformation is rife and spread far too easily.
TLDR
FAKE NEWS
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Fadgebadger (1 like), Sat 19 May 2018, 9:02,
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Wow, reading the leaflet this EU sounds a really nice place.
We can still have frictionless trade but the pricks in the EU don't want it. They want our money, my money, to spend on their 'projects'. Not every EU initiative is bad, but on balance its fucked up and undemocratic. Pretty much staunch remainers (a) will either profit from staying or (b) are scared at not having the EU do their thinking for them.
(, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:10, Share, Reply)
OK, look: "frictionless" trade requires institutions, and that requires regulation, and that requires membership of regulatory bodies. Bodies rather like those instatiated in, er, the EU. If you leave the EU, you have to build them all anew, and pretty darned quickly, too. And it's absurd to say that the EU doesn't want frictionless trade, given that it keeps on entering into trade agreements with other countries and blocs around the world in order to facilitate just that.
"They want our money" is simply absurd. Yes, there are contributor states and recipient states. But - holy fucking shitcastles! - the money that's paid out is overwhelmingly directed at things that'll raise the wealth of the recipient states, so that (a) they don't stay recipients, and (b) the people there'll be wealthy enough to buy stuff from the likes of us.
Do you complain about money from London or Manchester taxpayers being used to pay for welfare in Cornwall? Do you think that that's a reason for London or Manchester to declare UDI? No: because that's not how communities work. And if it's not how communities work on a state level, it's hard to see why it's how they'd work on a supra-state level. And don't forget that the EU has poured millions into regional development in places like Cornwall, as well as into things like fundamental scientific research elsewhere in the UK. I walk past the National Graphene Institute every day. It's EU-funded.
"Undemocratic" is a howler, given that the EU has no powers that it doesn't get from member states. Non-member-states have no such powers within it, but they still have to abide by EU standards to trade there. Meanwhile, when was the last time you voted for a representative to the WTO? (And we could turn this around, of course: if you think that it doesn't matter that we don't vote for representatives to the WTO, you've undermined your own argument about the EU's putative democratic deficit.)
Do I profit personally from being in the EU? That's impossible to say, but inasmuch as that I rely on a generally healthy economy - as do we all - and leaving the EU is likely to put at least a generational dent into that, then yes. Probably. So does pretty much everyone. And I also benefit intangibly, in terms of continent-wide peace and security, freedom to live and work, cultural flows, a general sense of belonging, and all the rest of it.
Or is all that just an instance of someone doing my thinking for me?
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Sat 19 May 2018, 9:30,
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Christ, ardent remainers are boring.
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After you my dear Alfonse No. After you., Sat 19 May 2018, 15:17,
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Top quality rebuttal there.
You really showed him who’s got the most cogent argument.
No, wait. You didn’t.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Sat 19 May 2018, 16:43,
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Come on. You didn't get through it either.
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After you my dear Alfonse No. After you., Sat 19 May 2018, 17:05,
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The "Undemocratic" rant always boiled my piss.
MEPs are directly elected, hence Farage. It's not the EU's fault if we generally don't give a shit about who gets in.
Council members are appointed by the member states, and the only reason we don't vote on those is because our government doesn't let us.
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jonbob loves you, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:18,
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People in western democracies whinging about how undemocratic it is here can safely fuck off
(, Sat 19 May 2018, 17:45, Share, Reply)
Putting money into the EU goes in part to develop the poorer countries in the EU.
We were growing the market into which we had frictionless access. It was in our interests.
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Draconacticus Reject shampoo. Demand real poo!, Sat 19 May 2018, 15:00,
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