well alot of people do
people laugh at alot fo stuff they don't understand - until they do the research and have had the benefits proven to you first hand, which I have and to me the benefits are indistputable after I treated 2 people succefully so far with confirmed Maleria who could not afford the conventional drugs and could not access them if they could due to the remotness of their location
did you know colloidal silver was used early in this century before anti biotocs came along?
a number of reports can be found in British and American medical journals on the use of silver for a variety of diseases - Dr Keith Courteney includes many of these teh book "Colloidal Silver" (Oracle Press, Montville, Qld, 1999; )
"used as anti-bactericide and anti-fungal both intravenously and intramuscularly, as a throat gargle, douche, orally, topically, and as eye drops(Z Baranowski Colloidal Silver The Natural Antibiotic Alternative, Healing Wisdom Publications, NY, 1995)
"Colloidal Silver has been tested at numerous laboratories. It appears to be effective on microbiological organisms because it carries an electrical charge opposite to that of most pathogens. One researcher O. Diaries, in describing the effects of silver, states that administration of silver is "rapidly fatal to parasites, both bacterial or otherwise without any toxic action on the host" -
"to primitive life forms, silver is as toxic as, conventional chemical disinfectants" - source; Thompson, the Runcorn Health Laboratory, Cheshire, states
"Physician Patents Technique Using Silver Ions" - source Silver News July 27, 1999, a bi-monthly newsletter published by The Silver Institute.
QUOTE:
"Clinical tests indicate that the silver-based procedure is so successful that one patient who had sustained three crushed fingers in an accident grew new tissue rapidly. Within 2-1/2 months, skin coverage was complete and there was normal full sensation, good blood supply and all joints had a normal range of motion. If left untreated, the 30-year old electrician's fingers would have fallen off after turning black from gangrene, and he would have been left with a totally useless hand. Ironically, his orthopaedic surgeon recommended amputation of all three fingers, but the patient requested silver-ion therapy, which proved successful"
if I had the time I'd go on - but honestly is there a point?
you make your own reality
I hope your cynicism works for you, as well as my open mindedness and resaerch is working for me
under codex this would be banned -the reason the FDA doesn't license it is because studies take years at millions of dollars and the process can not be patenetd so they wouldn't make a return of money or profit from it
peace
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:57, Share, Reply)
Of course, it also has known toxicity
and it's use was discontinued when it became obvious that modern antibiotics were more effective (probably slightly less so now due to resistance).
My concern is that these are micro- and nano- scale particles of silver, which the body has no mechanism to get rid of. In some cases, they appear to be deposited under the skin, but in others there is reason to be concerned that they may cause problems in the future.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:05,
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Shhhhh...
If we tell him that there's no difference between a medicine and a poison, his head'll explode.
Wait.
Hey, Goat: There's no difference between a medicine and a poison.
*waits*
(
Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:08,
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nope
you neeed to knwo how to make it - distilled water with .9999 pure silver and the right voltage to get the right particle size( about 0.01 to 0.0001 micron diameter) suspension in a solution of deionized water
Medical journal reports and studies have indicated no known side effects from use of Colloidal Silver
Quote
"Nadine Wooley a greatly improved M.S patient, drank more than one pint a day of (HVAC produced) of Colloidal Silver for over 4 years. She showed brain lesions caused by the M.S. on a scan prior to the silver treatment, and the dispersal of two brain lesions (partly responsible for the M.S.) after 8 months of silver use. A blood test undertaken by the Mayo clinic revealed no silver toxicity
She had a dramatic reduction in her M.S. symptoms over this period. Silver is not stored in the tissues and needs to be regularly consumed, e.g. daily, to achieve the best results "
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:09, Share, Reply)
Reference?
I'll bet you a jam doughnut that your quotation isn't from a peer-reviewed journal.
Your recipe is meaningless as far as I can see, and you provide no reason to think that your "solution" - not actually a solution, by the way - would do anything at all.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:17,
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Baker CD, Federico MJ, Accurso FJ (December 2007). "Case report: skin discoloration following administration of colloidal silver in cystic fibrosis". Curr. Opin. Pediatr. 19 (6): 733–5. doi:10.1097/MOP.0b013e3282f11fee. PMID 18025945.
Brandt D, Park B, Hoang M, Jacobe HT (August 2005). "Argyria secondary to ingestion of homemade silver solution". J. Am. Acad. Dermatol. 53 (2 Suppl 1): S105–7. doi:10.1016/j.jaad.2004.09.026. PMID 16021155
Mirsattari SM, Hammond RR, Sharpe MD, Leung FY, Young GB (April 2004). "Myoclonic status epilepticus following repeated oral ingestion of colloidal silver". Neurology 62 (8): 1408–10. PMID 15111684
Wadhera A, Fung M (2005). "Systemic argyria associated with ingestion of colloidal silver". Dermatol. Online J. 11 (1): 12. PMID 15748553
McKenna JK, Hull CM, Zone JJ (July 2003). "Argyria associated with colloidal silver supplementation". Int. J. Dermatol. 42 (7): 549. PMID 12839605
Glad to see your open-minded research is going so well.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:20,
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While I'm at it...
Fung MC, Bowen DL (1996). "Silver products for medical indications: risk-benefit assessment". J. Toxicol. Clin. Toxicol. 34 (1): 119–26. PMID 8632503
"CONCLUSIONS: We emphasize the lack of established effectiveness and potential toxicity of these products."
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:24,
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colliodal silver with made with salts
or as the method I outlined of the particle size (about 0.01 to 0.0001 micron diameter), I stated ?
you can quote until the cows come home but you need to tell me how that colliodal silver was made and the particle size - at this makes the difference
please specify?
also I guess that's why all the people I know who've been using it for years are turning into smurfs -don't make me laugh ;)
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:26, Share, Reply)
well it's certainly
buggering up your spelling and grammar.
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Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:34,
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I havent read through all of the papers...
...so I'm not sure how any of the colloidal silver was made. I doubt it matters as much as you think though.
But it does expose the fact that you hadn't done the research, doesn't it?
You said "Medical journal reports and studies have indicated no known side effects from use of Colloidal Silver"
Then I, using about 5 mins research, sourced a number of medical journal reports and studies that indicated known side effects from use of colloidal silver.
So you are either rubbish at researching these things, or were just making it up.
I see you think anecdote is more valuable than peer-reviewed research though, so nevermind.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:35,
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"I havent read through all of the papers...
...so I'm not sure how any of the colloidal silver was made. I doubt it matters as much as you think though""
it makes ALL the difference, as I keep telling you - and if you read my original post on the subject I play a large part in emphasising
""But it does expose the fact that you hadn't done the research, doesn't it?"""
research the papers that bother to provide the vital information - such as the vital issue of PARTICLE SIZE and HOW IT WAS MADE
all studies done with particle size I specify above show non-toxicity - for all I know the colloidal silver you're quoting could have used the pre 30s methods of creation with salts
and more importantly I have had first hand experience of non toxicity and benefits from the colliodal silver I specify above
vitamin A is good for you but in the wrong doses toxic - you get the idea?
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:45, Share, Reply)
So pick and choose which bits of research to read
Then make erroneous comments like "Medical journal reports and studies have indicated no known side effects from use of Colloidal Silver"?
That comment was wrong, it doesn't matter how you try to get out of it.
The papers refer to either colloidal silver bought in alternative health shops, or home made ("The patient described brewing the colloidal silver solution using a 38,000-V generator, 100% pure silver coins, and distilled water.")
Either way, your colloidal silver has an enormous range of particle sizes - "0.01 to 0.0001 microns" That's like saying something costs between £1 and £100, or a distance is between 1 mile and 100 miles! You realise you're saying between 0.1 and 10 nanometres, don't you? So any concerns about nanoscale silver particles are perfectly warranted.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:59,
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yep
as between 0.01 to 0.0001 microns (a large difference in microscopic terms) is the region proven safe and benefitial
so unless your telling me the particle size in those studies you're not telling me anything
it's like saying "someone drank some water and died " ulness you tell me how much you'll think drinking water was bad for you
big difference between someone sipping a glass and someone on ecstasy drinking 5 litres in 1 hour - big difference in effect too
you get the point?
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:05, Share, Reply)
"is the region proven safe and benefitial "
Nope, it isn't. There's no proof, is there?
I do not have time to read all the papers that you claimed do not exist to tell you what particle size each of them were using.
I've told you one of the methods used which is, based on what you have told me, the same as your method. Others use over-the -counter preparations - are you saying that these would have particle sizes outside those "proven to be safe and beneficial"?
Here's an interesting quote for you, from one of the papers which discusses symptoms of someone making his own colloidal silver from deionised water, pure silver coins and high voltage (just like you):
"Deposits of silver may be found in internal organs including gastric tissue, liver, renal tubules, and seminiferous tubules of the testes."
What this boils down to is that you are free to take colloidal silver if you want to, but despite your claims there are studies showing adverse effects and toxicity. You can ignore these if you like, but you can't claim they don't exist.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:19,
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also you're aware some plain drinking water can contain up to 0.1 mg of silver per litre and still be within EPA safety guidelines right?
the colliodal silver benefitial dose is one 5ml dose per day of 0.01- 0.0001 mg (what I use and others I know to kill single celled virus)
the official guidelines of the silver safety report (Jan 99) have 0.02 - 0.08mg per litre per day as a safe amount to be injested
the WHO puts it at 0.08mg of silver per day from diet
even with the colloidal silver dose of corrcetl;y made silver colloid of upper limit 0.01mg and (not mentioning all down to 0.0001) you still have a huge margin to stay within official guidelines
I'd be far more concerned about your mercury, aliminium and lead levels than silver which has no toxic effects
and as a side note I could recommend a very good detox invloving cilantro(corianda)should you choose to remove your amalgam fillings (which Terry Pratchett thinks caused his alzeimers)
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:22, Share, Reply)
So why bother, and why mention it in the first place if you can get all you need from drinking water?
And you do realise that 0.01-0.0001 micrometer particles is not equivalent to 0.01-0.0001mg of silver, don't you?
Simply put, you were wrong about there being no research about the toxicity and side effects of colloidal silver. I have to do some work now.
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:33,
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yep
I'm aware of my typos and grammar
silver in drinking water is not the same as colloidal silver with ionised distilled water
like I said are you aware of the official guidelines I quoted such as the WHO and the 99 Silver Safety report?
and again to labour the point unless the studies talk about particle size it's not telling us anything
plus it's worryingly genralised for something claiming to be an official report - it is very easy to get a sample tested after all to deternmine particle size
I have far too much to do too - I had only planned on a quick look at links but Codex is such an under reported improtant subject I couldn't resist
nice debating with you
peace :)
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:41, Share, Reply)
Sorry, can I call bollocks here please?
I watched the terry Pratchett documentary and he did not state that he thinks his fillings caused his alzheimers. He said that he had been informed by some people on the internet that it is a possibility, but totally unproven. However, there would be no harm in avoiding any possible risk by having them replaced.
And anyway, even if he did think that the amalgam in his fillings did cause his alzheimers, what qualifies him to state it categorically? The man is an author, not a doctor or scientist.
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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:09,
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ok
dont have a tv so can't comment although there is this:
Author Pratchett blames his Alzheimer's on mercury fillings
www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/feb/15/mercury-fillings-alzheimers
lets disregards Pratchett then
some questions for you:
does amalgam fillings contain mercury?
is mercury toxic?
is any level of mercury in the body acceptable?
what are those levels?
and before you say it yes there's mercury in fish and the environment too
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:11, Share, Reply)
OK, I shall answer these questions to the best of my knowledge.
Yes, they contain mercury.
Yes, mercury can be toxic.
No-one knows for certain. Whipping up mass hysteria over an unfounded supposition is just ludicrous.
EDIT: I have chronic asthma. I believe that it was caused by my mother eating Angel Delight when she was pregnant with me. I have no medical qualifications, but it is happening to me. Does that make me an expert? No. I agree, this is reductio ad absurdum, but it iterates my point that Terry Pratchett is in no way quallified to comment on what caused his alzheimers conclusively.
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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:19,
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My Dads a dentist
and we were fairly hammered watching that Tonight episode on it, so the amount of shouting "you fucking idiots!" at the screen was plenty.
But anyway, he hasnt used amalgam for years, hes used "white fillings" for several reasons, but will still use amalgam in some cases as its more appropriate.. Hes an NHS dentist, and used to do alot of treatment not sanctioned by the NHS (cost issues) because he believed it was better for the patient, he was very naughty, and could have got a propper spanking for it. These days under the new contract NHS dentists can do what ever is best for their patient in their opinion, so its all peachy
As for amalgam, its been used for donkeys, my dads got amalgam fillings, they last for yonks, and do fuck all to you, there no evidence to say that they do. Removing them increases the risk of ingestion of mercury slightly, but whilst its in your gob your fine.
Now what made my dyed in the wool NHS dad start spitting, were the fucking morons spending thousands of pounds on some charlaton dentist wearing a fucking hazmat suit to remove perfectly fine and safe amalgam fillings for no reason other than spurious rumours.
But typicaly the BDA send some fucking moron to defend dentist, probably some old boys club private dentist that works 1 day a week..
NHS dentists need their own representation...
Hmmm I seem to be ranting, sorry..
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Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:13,
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Do not worry about the rant at all :)
This is my point. If there were direct links they would have been found and amalgam would have been made illegal years ago! However, that means fuck all to these internet nutters.
It appears reading down the thread that any tough question to respond to has been ignored by him :)
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Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:19,
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Just seen your edit
You're very sneaky, with all your little extra edits, aren't you?
"the colliodal silver benefitial dose is one 5ml dose per day of 0.01- 0.0001 mg (what I use and others I know to kill single celled virus)"
Right - viruses do not have cells. They take advantage of other organisms cells to use as virus-reproduction machines. By this statement, you acknowledge that your silver mixture attacks and kills your own cells (viruses may alter cell surface antigen expression, but as particles of silver couldn't be specific in that way, it's not relevant.)
Also, you've just said that tap water contains this amount of silver anyway, so drinking a litre of tap water would have the same effect (a greater effect, in fact, as you would be drinking more water.)
Furthermore, your excuse for not reading the research (despite the colloidal silver in those papers being manufactured in the same way as your own), is weak at best - why not just admit that you want to believe that it will help you, and purposely avoid reading anything that says otherwise?
And while I'm on a roll, please tell me how you know that your silver particles are the size you think they are - you have a microscope sensitive enough?
I strongly suspect you do not know what you are talking about. The viruses comment, along with the rubbish about silver having a different charge to bacteria, then moaning about ionic silver elsewhere (an ion is a charged particle - if your silver has 'a different charge' to bacteria, then we're dealing with ions). Seals the deal for me. Sorry Goat, you have shown yourself to be a fool.
"Peace".
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TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 19:42,
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"She had a dramatic reduction in her M.S. symptoms over this period."
Is that not perhaps because you can get relapsing-remitting M.S? So a reduction in symptoms was going to happen anyway. Whether you gave them silver or smeared them with chicken's blood.
EDIT: Should probably add, if you're reading, that MS is one of the worst conditions to try and prove the effectiveness of any drug/treatment on. The huge range of variability in sufferers mean the reliability of a sample, and the validity of any results obtained from them is laughable. The standard deviations involved alone would make a grown statician weep.
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:53, Share, Reply)
ok pick one of the other reports
I posted above with used as anti-bactericide and anti-fungal, tissue regeneration, lethal to single celled virus etc
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:10, Share, Reply)
You mean the ones from such credible and even handed sources as....
The Silver Institute and Healing Wisdom?
Bias is in everything but research should inform your bias. Bias shouldn't inform your research.
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:51, Share, Reply)
Thank ye :D
* Takes a little bow *
I think when my current experiments have to go through the publication process I'm going to tag that on the end. Just in case any of the reviewers try and send it back for less than scientific reasons!
I've had an urge for Angel Delight since you mentioned it :(
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:20, Share, Reply)
cherry picking the reports you can dismiss while ignoring the others, cute:
Dr. Peter L. Reynolds, Ph.D.,
sub-titled "the safe silver"
Certified Nutritionist Zane Baranowski published a similar list in
"The Natural Antibiotic Alternative."
Alfred Searle, of pharmaceutical giant Searle Labs researched colloidal silver. 112 pharmaceutical silver drugs were patented
In the US the FDA classifies it as a pre 1938 drug and still allows it to be used so long as such products are 'advertised and labelled for the same use as in 1938 and manufactured in the original manner.'
etc
the strongest evidence for me is in practical use and the witnessed benefits - I prefer to take truth as authority rather than authority as truth - and I apply this to most things
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:28, Share, Reply)
Haha!
"cherry pickin the reports you can dismiess while ignoring the others, cute:"
I think several others have pointed out cases of you doing just that. You've ignored entire studies in more credible journals, instead you've focused on ones that prove your point. Despite them being from sources with clear agendas.
Have I only looked at a few? Yes but that doesn't mean I've not looked at the others. I've not mentioned them because for the most part they are from the same sort of sources.
The Goat, I admire your enthusiasm for your beliefs. And of course you can believe in whatever you want for whatever reason. But when you start claiming a scientific basis for them then they're going to come under scientific scrutiny. And for the most part they don't hold up.
The sources you've used have tended to be ones with a clear bias. The ones you have ignored have been from a better class of journal.
As for the sources below. Lets have a gander shall we....
Dr Peter Reynolds....What kind of Doctor is he? What's his area of expertise? What's his motivation? Does he have a grant from a certain company or body that would encourage certain results? More importantly though does one paper make it fact? Science has anomalies. A balance of evidence has to be considered. You've been pointed in the direction of other studies but you've ignored them.
Certified Nutrionist? What kind of certification? You can gain all sorts of certification, especially in a growing field like nutrition. Certified doesn't mean anything when tagged on like that.
And again more importantly what does nutrition have to do with it? I know a certified Nutrionist and I know that he is not qualified to comment on micro-biology or medicine.
Alfred Searle patenting drugs doesn't mean the drugs work. Nor does it even mean he patented 112 radically different drugs. Many drugs are tweaked slightly when the patent starts to come to an end so they can keep it protected. All it means is he thought it prudent to patent as much stuff as he could. Which is what most companies like that do, just in case.
The FDA also approves a vast amount of drugs that studies have shown to be no better than placebo's, anti-depessants in particular. See the recent Irving Kirsch et al paper. In fact while we're on that have you ever considered that this 'treatment' is closer to a placebo effect?
* Takes deep breath *
And finally....if the strongest evidence for you is based on your subjective experience why are you arguing so hard about objective quantifiable evidence? Or is that just a retreat for you? The claims scientifically are on shakey ground so you've retreated to the safety of ancedotal belief? By all means do, just stop trying to claim that there's this overwhelming amount of scientific evidence for it.
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:50, Share, Reply)
Haha! Just done a quick google search about Mr Zane
He got his certification from National Institute for Nutritional Education.
www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html
Scroll down for a mention:D
EDIT: Should point out that that the classy Institute Zane went to is now the American Health Science University, which is on the list.....offering online degree's for a price.
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:59, Share, Reply)
No known side effects?
Other than turning into a giant smurf - www.naturallysavvy.com/news-and-reviews/290-colloidal-silver-creates-a-human-smurf
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:57, Share, Reply)
again
this is IONIC silver not colliodal silver and he was rubbing it on his skin in addition to injesting it which causes the greyish skin tint
they always trot this story out to discredit its benefits
look at the uses of colloidal silver pre 1930s if you want the truth and the ailments it eas used to treat before big Pharma took hold - also the time they started banning hemp rich in THCs
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:17, Share, Reply)
What?
You're "treating" people for Malaria with a home-made remedy?
Seriously? Fucking hell. That's not just misguided - it's medacious and dangerous.
You are Yahya Jammeh AICMFP, etc - except that this is serious.
Incidentally - while there is (I believe) some evidence for the medical use of silver, it's NOT the cure-all that you seem to think it is.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:06,
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Meh - Do what you like matey.. for some reason i thought you were UK based, so thought maleria prevention might be a bit of over kill
Any way, my family is dyed in the wool NHS, ill take what the comrades tell me to take when I'm ill.. that way at least Ive got some one to sue..
Also Enzyme, I nearly fell of the chair at your comment!
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Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:21,
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*takes bow*
Jammeh is gratifyingly nuts.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:31,
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hello, microbiologist here....
"Colloidal Silver has been tested at numerous laboratories. It appears to be effective on microbiological organisms because it carries an electrical charge opposite to that of most pathogens."
so-called pathogens do not have a special electrical charge compared to any other micro organisms. So this means that if this really is working you're killing your own microbial flora in your body, in which case you should be feeling pretty shit by now.
do you know what your problem is??
"Oracle Press"
"Healing Wisdom Publications"
"Runcorn Health Laboratory"
"The Silver Institute"
there... that's your problem.
hippies, idiots and bullshit-artists the lot of them.
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The little pink animal is mostly harmless, except on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:54,
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some reports you are willing to recoginse?:
Dr. Peter L. Reynolds, Ph.D., sub-titled "the safe silver" lists aliments and diseases treated with colloidal silver
Certified Nutritionist Zane Baranowski published a similar list in "The Natural Antibiotic Alternative."
In the US the FDA classifies it as a pre 1938 drug and still allows it to be used so long as such products are 'advertised and labelled for the same use as in 1938 and manufactured in the original manner.'
also seeing as your a micro biologist check out the uses and successes and ailments by the medical industry before the more profitable anti-biotics replaced its uses
(, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:25, Share, Reply)
Hello, microbiologist here too
And I agree.
The Goat - you are talking pure unadulterated bollocks.
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sm.pl.crt.rs I don't fucking know, do I?, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:39,
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