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This is a link post Codex Alimentarius P1 of 5
Codex Alimentarius comes into effect worldwide on December 31st this year.

I suggest you learn all about it, or not.
Waheeeeeeey!
(I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:04, , Reply)
This is a normal post but....?? What about the "thing" that was going to happen last year???
did it get cancelled due to wet weather

Edit: Yaaaay It's got Nazis in it :) I guessed it would....
Edit X2: Do Conspiracies have Fads & Fashions?.. A while back it was all chemtrails and black ops aircraft.. Now you Catnipp and the all the rest seem to be on a foody health murcury, msg, aspartame gig??
 (I helped save b3ta! The magic of chutney Shakes it like an Instagram filter!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post Pick a year. Any year..
www.survive2012.com/
 (I helped save b3ta! Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post I know we're probably going to fuck up the Olympics
but will it really cause the end of the world?
 (I helped save b3ta! t0ria has forgotten how this all works, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post I've never mentioned any of that wacky bullshit, you dog fucker.
:)
 (I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ah, the master of ready wit and repartee has left the building.

(I helped save b3ta! Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well that's a bit low

(I helped save b3ta! megapowerskills is farming apple meat, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post What can go wrong in 2012?
Time Travel Error

It's your kids Marty!
 (I helped save b3ta! Alabaster Codify wouldn't piss on yr gums if yr teeth were on fire, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 18:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yes, I've had several comments about this..
I posted a video of Colin Powell being interviewed, warning the American people about an event that would happen..er..whenever it was.

Nothing happened.

Oh well.
 (I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post You mean the one that
stated that a change would come on January 13th?
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post Erm..the one with Colin Powell, I forget which.

(I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post I believe that is the one you refer to.
It was picked over by people for months leading up to the date. What none of the geniuses seemed to realise was that was the day that Barack Obama was going to be sworn in, and Colin Powell was talking in a very abstract manner.
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ah well
well done for admitting that, and not changing your posts or whatever. Woo!
 (Cap'n, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:31, , Reply)
This is a normal post Have you met Catnippp?
You'd either get on brilliantly or you'd both self destruct.
 (I helped save b3ta! t0ria has forgotten how this all works, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post Dekion does at least have a good (and wacky) sense of humour with his pics

(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post I also make a mean burger.
Don't forget that, you cheeky scamp.

Also, while I'm here, are you aware of the masons in the US pushing the CHIP system for children?
 (I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:21, , Reply)
This is a normal post I think this is a good idea.
All children should be chipped and par-fried before cooking, to extract their natural flavourings.
 (Smelch God says I'm a Pirate now. Yarr!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post Bastard.

I was drinking tea and eating biscuits when I read that.

Now I've got to clean my monitor.
 (I helped save b3ta! Evil Prof. Pixel Masher I made this!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 19:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post That's weird.
Because over here the government want to band chips for kids.
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post they have set up an initiative, yes
inviting, not 'pushing' parents into preparing a set of data - solely owned by the parent - in case the child ever goes missing.
It has been well documented that all the data (which is presumably where you're going with this, I could be wrong) is only owned by the parent on a cd/dvd,
and is immediately wiped from the computer system it's prepared on once the cd/dvd has been made for the parent. :)
It's quite well documented and adhered to from basic research. On. The. Internet.
*Peace* :)
 (I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post
ah of course the exquisite techniques of reason to justify every action they deem necessary to protect their personal agendas

groups who have no interest in wider society but are masters of selling everything they do as the betterment of the people

Reducing civil liberties = protection of the people

The invasion of Iraq = protection from WMDs and Saddam's funding of 'Al Quida' until it is demonstrably shown to be bollocks

and now this bollocks

of course it's just coincidence that David Rockefeller told of the micro chipped population LINK as the end goal of the fabricated 'war on terror'

href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7se4gFTCys

it's ok just coincidence

ah the joys of having an international fraternity of well connected 'brothers' and the old boys network taking secret oaths with each other (with the useful idiots at the bottom) to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet

it took a few million years for humans to develop backbones - why anyone would give theirs up to join this organisation is beyond me - unless of course you place taking professional perks/ connections/social climbing/status/ and subservience above your personal integrity
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:39, , Reply)
This is a normal post hahahaha
Love it, welcome back Mr Goat.
 (I helped save b3ta! Brandy_Bumwinkle, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post hi fella
jellyfish that can type get my back up sometimes

;)
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:54, , Reply)
This is a normal post boolocks. Best of all the locks
and the perfect summation of your 'points' on freemasonry right there.

Good show... And well edited up there :)

edit: something that 'may' interest you. - and I'm being serious here. I noticed below you mention you don't have a TV,
but there is a rather nice (if cliched) little programme on which I caught last night called 'Grow Your Own Drugs'.
Aside from the provocative title designed to whip up viewers, there has been some good suggestions on 'natural'
(or semi-natural) ways to make various products to aid ailments.
You may be able to catch up with it on the iPlayer, or I believe there is a website on the bbc site dedicated to it.
If you grow your own food/herbs etc as you suggest, it might be worth a gander. It's presented in a dreadful 'jolly hockey sticks' kind of format
which is annoying, but the recipes seem sound, if its something that would interest you. Just a thought.
One of the recipes I've used before myself several times, and it works. It certainly also saves trips to the quack for everything. :)
As said, it may or may not be of interest, but just thought I'd mention it, as it is something which is introducing
specific 'natural' remedies to a wider audience.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post I like some of his work.
I don't agree with all his theories and his large rambling statements on /board don't really help anyone.

I have linked this video as it is important information.

It contains facts, if that offends, then avoid.
 (I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post Its not my cup of tea I have to amit
but I wouldn't say it offends me!

And you aren't a complete nutter like him.


ED: Admit. Fucking non-editable subject lines.
 (I helped save b3ta! t0ria has forgotten how this all works, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well, this has been fun kids.
Unky Dek has to go now.

xxxxxxx
 (I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post So it's a voluntary reference guide which suggestts
vitamin and 'health food' manufacturers should actually say what's in their products.

Yeah, I can see how that's terrifying.
 (I helped save b3ta! chenobble rocking his explorer beard on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post Where have I said I'm "terrified"?
Also you should watch all five parts before making an assessment.

Or not, I don't really care.
 (I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ah ok, too much Catnippp exposure, he's terrified of everything.
I don't have sound at work so I looked up other sources.

It seems like the health food industry (The biggest bunch of quacks and con-artists in the western world) are really worried about this, so I'm tentatively pro-Codex.
 (I helped save b3ta! chenobble rocking his explorer beard on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post Can anyone figure this out?
I'm baffled. She's all over the place. It's got something to do with Nazis and the UN, but beyond that, I'm stumped.

Were this an essay, I'd return it with a one-word comment. That word would be "EH?".
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post Oh, there you are.

(I helped save b3ta! (|D[ekionplexis B3ta.com: fictional child porn is OK, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:25, , Reply)
This is a normal post *waves*
Hello.

I'm genuinely baffled by this, and I really can't see why I should sit through an hour of it to de-baffle myself. What the hell is the point she's making?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:27, , Reply)
This is a normal post She annoyed me early on...
...and I do not have time to listen to all of it.

Have you read the codex, Deikonplexis? If so, please summarise it here without any propaganda, so us B3tards can make our own decisions.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post Have you read the codex, Deikonplexis?
That's a rhetorical question, isn't it?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:36, , Reply)
This is a normal post It is a little..
especially as I have read a bit about it, and would be interested to see how differently things come across from him.

From what I can tell, it's broadly a good idea, which would apply standards to food safety and trading.

What I find really amusing is the anti-codex/anti-pharma people claiming that it will restrict your access to vitamins, to try to make you ill. I'm not sure when alternative health shops and supplements became your only access to vitamins - personally, I just eat a healthy diet.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post nice links Dex
TheAlmightyBeev ,here's a link if you could be bothered in easy to digest paragraphs on what this is about

www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=155

have no doubts this has nothing to do with consumer protection anymore than the anti terror legislation and ID card act has to make society safer

it is about the same old chestnut of money and control and it's one of the reasons I grow my own food/hemp/herbs and make my own colloidal silver (which I use for Malaria prevention)

*codex alimentarius is just a fancypants way of saying food laws
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:42, , Reply)
This is a normal post Any why would food laws would be a problem?
You do realise food is already regulated, don't you? Hygiene standards, quality standards etc.

The codex would actually restrict the amount of pesticides used on food crops, and certainly control the levels of such that get into your food.

Growing your own food and herbs is admirable, I do the same myself.

Oh, and do you know if colloidal silver is safe? Seeing as it often contains nano-particles of silver, do you know how your body deals with them? I don't.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post read the link

(The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:48, , Reply)
This is a normal post Could you provide something less biased?
This stuff wears it's bias on it's sleeve. It even lies about the definition of codex - which means code, not rules.

Edit -
Lets face it, this is just propaganda. I love the fears about controlling vitamin c supplements. What's wrong with oranges? Spinach? You can get all the nutrients you need from normal, healthy food.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post Don't be so naive,
you can't get "normal" food anymore, don't you know it's all controlled by the man?
 (I helped save b3ta! Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post
watch the link in that case it's pretty comprehensive if you need objectivity

"Lets face it, this is just propaganda. I love the fears about controlling vitamin c supplements. What's wrong with oranges? Spinach? You can get all the nutrients you need from normal, healthy food."

soil nutrients use up very quickly (unless you live in the Andes which renews the soil with mminerals from the glacial melt hence the health of teh HUnza(? check the native word) people)

farm fertilisers won't cut it, I'm afraid

people NEED to supplement - you will not get it in food under modern farming methods


also if you want cry "propaganda look at motives

on one hand a huge business trying to restrict natural remedies which can be home grown to make profits fro it's own industry and maintain greater control

or

on the other hand , people wanting access to natural remedies, which can be home grown, and preserve the rights they have enjoyed for thousands of years

mmmmmm...tough one
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:52, , Reply)
This is a normal post Natural remedies
ARE a huge business.
 (Seebeedee, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post a huge and very poorly regulated business
who sell products which require very little testing, and no proof of their claims of their safety. A business that should be regulated in my opinion.

There was a lovely example a few years back - vitamin c tablets made from orange peel. No ody mentioned all of the various toxic and unpleasant things in orange peel though...
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 19:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post That's a load of nonsense.
Really, just nonsense.

Soil nutrients are easily replenished by crop rotation and digging in good compost or well rotted manure.

PEOPLE DO NOT NEED TO SUPPLEMENT, THEY JUST NEED A HEALTHY DIET.

"on one hand a huge business trying to restrict natural remedies which can be home grown to make profits fro it's own industry and maintain greater control"

Read that back to yourself. They will never be able to restrict legal things that can be home grown, nor do they care. I assure you, they would not be coming round to take away your st john's wort...

I do cry propaganda, as that it what it is.

Do you realise that they are not trying to restrict natural remedies, they are trying to restrict the uncontrolled and unregulated sale of these things, which could very well be harmful?
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 19:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post I did read it.
The one you provided.

It's utter, unbridled nonsense.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post What is this "Maleria"
anyway? :)
 (I helped save b3ta! Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post "make my own colloidal silver (which I use for Maleria prevention)"
Sorry that made me laugh like a loon for some reason..
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post well alot of people do
people laugh at alot fo stuff they don't understand - until they do the research and have had the benefits proven to you first hand, which I have and to me the benefits are indistputable after I treated 2 people succefully so far with confirmed Maleria who could not afford the conventional drugs and could not access them if they could due to the remotness of their location

did you know colloidal silver was used early in this century before anti biotocs came along?

a number of reports can be found in British and American medical journals on the use of silver for a variety of diseases - Dr Keith Courteney includes many of these teh book "Colloidal Silver" (Oracle Press, Montville, Qld, 1999; )

"used as anti-bactericide and anti-fungal both intravenously and intramuscularly, as a throat gargle, douche, orally, topically, and as eye drops(Z Baranowski Colloidal Silver The Natural Antibiotic Alternative, Healing Wisdom Publications, NY, 1995)

"Colloidal Silver has been tested at numerous laboratories. It appears to be effective on microbiological organisms because it carries an electrical charge opposite to that of most pathogens. One researcher O. Diaries, in describing the effects of silver, states that administration of silver is "rapidly fatal to parasites, both bacterial or otherwise without any toxic action on the host" -

"to primitive life forms, silver is as toxic as, conventional chemical disinfectants" - source; Thompson, the Runcorn Health Laboratory, Cheshire, states

"Physician Patents Technique Using Silver Ions" - source Silver News July 27, 1999, a bi-monthly newsletter published by The Silver Institute.

QUOTE:
"Clinical tests indicate that the silver-based procedure is so successful that one patient who had sustained three crushed fingers in an accident grew new tissue rapidly. Within 2-1/2 months, skin coverage was complete and there was normal full sensation, good blood supply and all joints had a normal range of motion. If left untreated, the 30-year old electrician's fingers would have fallen off after turning black from gangrene, and he would have been left with a totally useless hand. Ironically, his orthopaedic surgeon recommended amputation of all three fingers, but the patient requested silver-ion therapy, which proved successful"

if I had the time I'd go on - but honestly is there a point?

you make your own reality

I hope your cynicism works for you, as well as my open mindedness and resaerch is working for me

under codex this would be banned -the reason the FDA doesn't license it is because studies take years at millions of dollars and the process can not be patenetd so they wouldn't make a return of money or profit from it

peace
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post Of course, it also has known toxicity
and it's use was discontinued when it became obvious that modern antibiotics were more effective (probably slightly less so now due to resistance).

My concern is that these are micro- and nano- scale particles of silver, which the body has no mechanism to get rid of. In some cases, they appear to be deposited under the skin, but in others there is reason to be concerned that they may cause problems in the future.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post Shhhhh...
If we tell him that there's no difference between a medicine and a poison, his head'll explode.

Wait.

Hey, Goat: There's no difference between a medicine and a poison.

*waits*
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:08, , Reply)
This is a normal post nope
you neeed to knwo how to make it - distilled water with .9999 pure silver and the right voltage to get the right particle size( about 0.01 to 0.0001 micron diameter) suspension in a solution of deionized water

Medical journal reports and studies have indicated no known side effects from use of Colloidal Silver

Quote
"Nadine Wooley a greatly improved M.S patient, drank more than one pint a day of (HVAC produced) of Colloidal Silver for over 4 years. She showed brain lesions caused by the M.S. on a scan prior to the silver treatment, and the dispersal of two brain lesions (partly responsible for the M.S.) after 8 months of silver use. A blood test undertaken by the Mayo clinic revealed no silver toxicity

She had a dramatic reduction in her M.S. symptoms over this period. Silver is not stored in the tissues and needs to be regularly consumed, e.g. daily, to achieve the best results "
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post Reference?
I'll bet you a jam doughnut that your quotation isn't from a peer-reviewed journal.

Your recipe is meaningless as far as I can see, and you provide no reason to think that your "solution" - not actually a solution, by the way - would do anything at all.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Baker CD, Federico MJ, Accurso FJ (December 2007). "Case report: skin discoloration following administration of colloidal silver in cystic fibrosis". Curr. Opin. Pediatr. 19 (6): 733–5. doi:10.1097/MOP.0b013e3282f11fee. PMID 18025945.

Brandt D, Park B, Hoang M, Jacobe HT (August 2005). "Argyria secondary to ingestion of homemade silver solution". J. Am. Acad. Dermatol. 53 (2 Suppl 1): S105–7. doi:10.1016/j.jaad.2004.09.026. PMID 16021155

Mirsattari SM, Hammond RR, Sharpe MD, Leung FY, Young GB (April 2004). "Myoclonic status epilepticus following repeated oral ingestion of colloidal silver". Neurology 62 (8): 1408–10. PMID 15111684

Wadhera A, Fung M (2005). "Systemic argyria associated with ingestion of colloidal silver". Dermatol. Online J. 11 (1): 12. PMID 15748553

McKenna JK, Hull CM, Zone JJ (July 2003). "Argyria associated with colloidal silver supplementation". Int. J. Dermatol. 42 (7): 549. PMID 12839605

Glad to see your open-minded research is going so well.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post While I'm at it...
Fung MC, Bowen DL (1996). "Silver products for medical indications: risk-benefit assessment". J. Toxicol. Clin. Toxicol. 34 (1): 119–26. PMID 8632503

"CONCLUSIONS: We emphasize the lack of established effectiveness and potential toxicity of these products."
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post colliodal silver with made with salts
or as the method I outlined of the particle size (about 0.01 to 0.0001 micron diameter), I stated ?

you can quote until the cows come home but you need to tell me how that colliodal silver was made and the particle size - at this makes the difference

please specify?

also I guess that's why all the people I know who've been using it for years are turning into smurfs -don't make me laugh ;)
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post well it's certainly
buggering up your spelling and grammar.
 (I helped save b3ta! Blackdogmanguitar is out with Fat Larry's Jazz Band on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:34, , Reply)
This is a normal post pffft
I'll give you that one
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post

(I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post I havent read through all of the papers...
...so I'm not sure how any of the colloidal silver was made. I doubt it matters as much as you think though.

But it does expose the fact that you hadn't done the research, doesn't it?

You said "Medical journal reports and studies have indicated no known side effects from use of Colloidal Silver"

Then I, using about 5 mins research, sourced a number of medical journal reports and studies that indicated known side effects from use of colloidal silver.

So you are either rubbish at researching these things, or were just making it up.

I see you think anecdote is more valuable than peer-reviewed research though, so nevermind.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post
"I havent read through all of the papers...
...so I'm not sure how any of the colloidal silver was made. I doubt it matters as much as you think though""

it makes ALL the difference, as I keep telling you - and if you read my original post on the subject I play a large part in emphasising

""But it does expose the fact that you hadn't done the research, doesn't it?"""

research the papers that bother to provide the vital information - such as the vital issue of PARTICLE SIZE and HOW IT WAS MADE

all studies done with particle size I specify above show non-toxicity - for all I know the colloidal silver you're quoting could have used the pre 30s methods of creation with salts

and more importantly I have had first hand experience of non toxicity and benefits from the colliodal silver I specify above

vitamin A is good for you but in the wrong doses toxic - you get the idea?
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:45, , Reply)
This is a normal post So pick and choose which bits of research to read
Then make erroneous comments like "Medical journal reports and studies have indicated no known side effects from use of Colloidal Silver"?

That comment was wrong, it doesn't matter how you try to get out of it.

The papers refer to either colloidal silver bought in alternative health shops, or home made ("The patient described brewing the colloidal silver solution using a 38,000-V generator, 100% pure silver coins, and distilled water.")

Either way, your colloidal silver has an enormous range of particle sizes - "0.01 to 0.0001 microns" That's like saying something costs between £1 and £100, or a distance is between 1 mile and 100 miles! You realise you're saying between 0.1 and 10 nanometres, don't you? So any concerns about nanoscale silver particles are perfectly warranted.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:59, , Reply)
This is a normal post yep
as between 0.01 to 0.0001 microns (a large difference in microscopic terms) is the region proven safe and benefitial

so unless your telling me the particle size in those studies you're not telling me anything

it's like saying "someone drank some water and died " ulness you tell me how much you'll think drinking water was bad for you

big difference between someone sipping a glass and someone on ecstasy drinking 5 litres in 1 hour - big difference in effect too

you get the point?
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post "is the region proven safe and benefitial "
Nope, it isn't. There's no proof, is there?

I do not have time to read all the papers that you claimed do not exist to tell you what particle size each of them were using.

I've told you one of the methods used which is, based on what you have told me, the same as your method. Others use over-the -counter preparations - are you saying that these would have particle sizes outside those "proven to be safe and beneficial"?

Here's an interesting quote for you, from one of the papers which discusses symptoms of someone making his own colloidal silver from deionised water, pure silver coins and high voltage (just like you):

"Deposits of silver may be found in internal organs including gastric tissue, liver, renal tubules, and seminiferous tubules of the testes."

What this boils down to is that you are free to take colloidal silver if you want to, but despite your claims there are studies showing adverse effects and toxicity. You can ignore these if you like, but you can't claim they don't exist.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post
also you're aware some plain drinking water can contain up to 0.1 mg of silver per litre and still be within EPA safety guidelines right?


the colliodal silver benefitial dose is one 5ml dose per day of 0.01- 0.0001 mg (what I use and others I know to kill single celled virus)

the official guidelines of the silver safety report (Jan 99) have 0.02 - 0.08mg per litre per day as a safe amount to be injested

the WHO puts it at 0.08mg of silver per day from diet

even with the colloidal silver dose of corrcetl;y made silver colloid of upper limit 0.01mg and (not mentioning all down to 0.0001) you still have a huge margin to stay within official guidelines


I'd be far more concerned about your mercury, aliminium and lead levels than silver which has no toxic effects


and as a side note I could recommend a very good detox invloving cilantro(corianda)should you choose to remove your amalgam fillings (which Terry Pratchett thinks caused his alzeimers)
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post So why bother, and why mention it in the first place if you can get all you need from drinking water?
And you do realise that 0.01-0.0001 micrometer particles is not equivalent to 0.01-0.0001mg of silver, don't you?

Simply put, you were wrong about there being no research about the toxicity and side effects of colloidal silver. I have to do some work now.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post yep
I'm aware of my typos and grammar

silver in drinking water is not the same as colloidal silver with ionised distilled water

like I said are you aware of the official guidelines I quoted such as the WHO and the 99 Silver Safety report?

and again to labour the point unless the studies talk about particle size it's not telling us anything

plus it's worryingly genralised for something claiming to be an official report - it is very easy to get a sample tested after all to deternmine particle size

I have far too much to do too - I had only planned on a quick look at links but Codex is such an under reported improtant subject I couldn't resist

nice debating with you

peace :)
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post Sorry, can I call bollocks here please?
I watched the terry Pratchett documentary and he did not state that he thinks his fillings caused his alzheimers. He said that he had been informed by some people on the internet that it is a possibility, but totally unproven. However, there would be no harm in avoiding any possible risk by having them replaced.

And anyway, even if he did think that the amalgam in his fillings did cause his alzheimers, what qualifies him to state it categorically? The man is an author, not a doctor or scientist.
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:09, , Reply)
This is a normal post ok
dont have a tv so can't comment although there is this:

Author Pratchett blames his Alzheimer's on mercury fillings
www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/feb/15/mercury-fillings-alzheimers


lets disregards Pratchett then

some questions for you:

does amalgam fillings contain mercury?
is mercury toxic?
is any level of mercury in the body acceptable?
what are those levels?

and before you say it yes there's mercury in fish and the environment too
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post OK, I shall answer these questions to the best of my knowledge.
Yes, they contain mercury.
Yes, mercury can be toxic.
No-one knows for certain. Whipping up mass hysteria over an unfounded supposition is just ludicrous.

EDIT: I have chronic asthma. I believe that it was caused by my mother eating Angel Delight when she was pregnant with me. I have no medical qualifications, but it is happening to me. Does that make me an expert? No. I agree, this is reductio ad absurdum, but it iterates my point that Terry Pratchett is in no way quallified to comment on what caused his alzheimers conclusively.
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post My Dads a dentist
and we were fairly hammered watching that Tonight episode on it, so the amount of shouting "you fucking idiots!" at the screen was plenty.

But anyway, he hasnt used amalgam for years, hes used "white fillings" for several reasons, but will still use amalgam in some cases as its more appropriate.. Hes an NHS dentist, and used to do alot of treatment not sanctioned by the NHS (cost issues) because he believed it was better for the patient, he was very naughty, and could have got a propper spanking for it. These days under the new contract NHS dentists can do what ever is best for their patient in their opinion, so its all peachy

As for amalgam, its been used for donkeys, my dads got amalgam fillings, they last for yonks, and do fuck all to you, there no evidence to say that they do. Removing them increases the risk of ingestion of mercury slightly, but whilst its in your gob your fine.

Now what made my dyed in the wool NHS dad start spitting, were the fucking morons spending thousands of pounds on some charlaton dentist wearing a fucking hazmat suit to remove perfectly fine and safe amalgam fillings for no reason other than spurious rumours.

But typicaly the BDA send some fucking moron to defend dentist, probably some old boys club private dentist that works 1 day a week..

NHS dentists need their own representation...

Hmmm I seem to be ranting, sorry..
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:13, , Reply)
This is a normal post Do not worry about the rant at all :)
This is my point. If there were direct links they would have been found and amalgam would have been made illegal years ago! However, that means fuck all to these internet nutters.

It appears reading down the thread that any tough question to respond to has been ignored by him :)
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post Just seen your edit
You're very sneaky, with all your little extra edits, aren't you?

"the colliodal silver benefitial dose is one 5ml dose per day of 0.01- 0.0001 mg (what I use and others I know to kill single celled virus)"

Right - viruses do not have cells. They take advantage of other organisms cells to use as virus-reproduction machines. By this statement, you acknowledge that your silver mixture attacks and kills your own cells (viruses may alter cell surface antigen expression, but as particles of silver couldn't be specific in that way, it's not relevant.)

Also, you've just said that tap water contains this amount of silver anyway, so drinking a litre of tap water would have the same effect (a greater effect, in fact, as you would be drinking more water.)

Furthermore, your excuse for not reading the research (despite the colloidal silver in those papers being manufactured in the same way as your own), is weak at best - why not just admit that you want to believe that it will help you, and purposely avoid reading anything that says otherwise?

And while I'm on a roll, please tell me how you know that your silver particles are the size you think they are - you have a microscope sensitive enough?

I strongly suspect you do not know what you are talking about. The viruses comment, along with the rubbish about silver having a different charge to bacteria, then moaning about ionic silver elsewhere (an ion is a charged particle - if your silver has 'a different charge' to bacteria, then we're dealing with ions). Seals the deal for me. Sorry Goat, you have shown yourself to be a fool.

"Peace".
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 19:42, , Reply)
This is a normal post
"She had a dramatic reduction in her M.S. symptoms over this period."

Is that not perhaps because you can get relapsing-remitting M.S? So a reduction in symptoms was going to happen anyway. Whether you gave them silver or smeared them with chicken's blood.

EDIT: Should probably add, if you're reading, that MS is one of the worst conditions to try and prove the effectiveness of any drug/treatment on. The huge range of variability in sufferers mean the reliability of a sample, and the validity of any results obtained from them is laughable. The standard deviations involved alone would make a grown statician weep.
 (Peljammy Watching Godzilla, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post ok pick one of the other reports
I posted above with used as anti-bactericide and anti-fungal, tissue regeneration, lethal to single celled virus etc
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post You mean the ones from such credible and even handed sources as....
The Silver Institute and Healing Wisdom?

Bias is in everything but research should inform your bias. Bias shouldn't inform your research.
 (Peljammy Watching Godzilla, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:51, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well said sir :D

(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post Thank ye :D
* Takes a little bow *

I think when my current experiments have to go through the publication process I'm going to tag that on the end. Just in case any of the reviewers try and send it back for less than scientific reasons!

I've had an urge for Angel Delight since you mentioned it :(
 (Peljammy Watching Godzilla, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post
cherry picking the reports you can dismiss while ignoring the others, cute:

Dr. Peter L. Reynolds, Ph.D.,
sub-titled "the safe silver"

Certified Nutritionist Zane Baranowski published a similar list in
"The Natural Antibiotic Alternative."

Alfred Searle, of pharmaceutical giant Searle Labs researched colloidal silver. 112 pharmaceutical silver drugs were patented

In the US the FDA classifies it as a pre 1938 drug and still allows it to be used so long as such products are 'advertised and labelled for the same use as in 1938 and manufactured in the original manner.'

etc

the strongest evidence for me is in practical use and the witnessed benefits - I prefer to take truth as authority rather than authority as truth - and I apply this to most things
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post Haha!
"cherry pickin the reports you can dismiess while ignoring the others, cute:"

I think several others have pointed out cases of you doing just that. You've ignored entire studies in more credible journals, instead you've focused on ones that prove your point. Despite them being from sources with clear agendas.

Have I only looked at a few? Yes but that doesn't mean I've not looked at the others. I've not mentioned them because for the most part they are from the same sort of sources.

The Goat, I admire your enthusiasm for your beliefs. And of course you can believe in whatever you want for whatever reason. But when you start claiming a scientific basis for them then they're going to come under scientific scrutiny. And for the most part they don't hold up.

The sources you've used have tended to be ones with a clear bias. The ones you have ignored have been from a better class of journal.


As for the sources below. Lets have a gander shall we....

Dr Peter Reynolds....What kind of Doctor is he? What's his area of expertise? What's his motivation? Does he have a grant from a certain company or body that would encourage certain results? More importantly though does one paper make it fact? Science has anomalies. A balance of evidence has to be considered. You've been pointed in the direction of other studies but you've ignored them.

Certified Nutrionist? What kind of certification? You can gain all sorts of certification, especially in a growing field like nutrition. Certified doesn't mean anything when tagged on like that.
And again more importantly what does nutrition have to do with it? I know a certified Nutrionist and I know that he is not qualified to comment on micro-biology or medicine.

Alfred Searle patenting drugs doesn't mean the drugs work. Nor does it even mean he patented 112 radically different drugs. Many drugs are tweaked slightly when the patent starts to come to an end so they can keep it protected. All it means is he thought it prudent to patent as much stuff as he could. Which is what most companies like that do, just in case.

The FDA also approves a vast amount of drugs that studies have shown to be no better than placebo's, anti-depessants in particular. See the recent Irving Kirsch et al paper. In fact while we're on that have you ever considered that this 'treatment' is closer to a placebo effect?


* Takes deep breath *
And finally....if the strongest evidence for you is based on your subjective experience why are you arguing so hard about objective quantifiable evidence? Or is that just a retreat for you? The claims scientifically are on shakey ground so you've retreated to the safety of ancedotal belief? By all means do, just stop trying to claim that there's this overwhelming amount of scientific evidence for it.
 (Peljammy Watching Godzilla, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:50, , Reply)
This is a normal post Haha! Just done a quick google search about Mr Zane
He got his certification from National Institute for Nutritional Education.

www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html

Scroll down for a mention:D

EDIT: Should point out that that the classy Institute Zane went to is now the American Health Science University, which is on the list.....offering online degree's for a price.
 (Peljammy Watching Godzilla, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:59, , Reply)
This is a normal post No known side effects?
Other than turning into a giant smurf - www.naturallysavvy.com/news-and-reviews/290-colloidal-silver-creates-a-human-smurf
 (Benzyl, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post haha
fuck
 (I helped save b3ta! WormuIus, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:12, , Reply)
This is a normal post again
this is IONIC silver not colliodal silver and he was rubbing it on his skin in addition to injesting it which causes the greyish skin tint

they always trot this story out to discredit its benefits

look at the uses of colloidal silver pre 1930s if you want the truth and the ailments it eas used to treat before big Pharma took hold - also the time they started banning hemp rich in THCs
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 17:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post What?
You're "treating" people for Malaria with a home-made remedy?

Seriously? Fucking hell. That's not just misguided - it's medacious and dangerous.

You are Yahya Jammeh AICMFP, etc - except that this is serious.

Incidentally - while there is (I believe) some evidence for the medical use of silver, it's NOT the cure-all that you seem to think it is.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post Meh - Do what you like matey.. for some reason i thought you were UK based, so thought maleria prevention might be a bit of over kill
Any way, my family is dyed in the wool NHS, ill take what the comrades tell me to take when I'm ill.. that way at least Ive got some one to sue..


Also Enzyme, I nearly fell of the chair at your comment!
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:21, , Reply)
This is a normal post *takes bow*
Jammeh is gratifyingly nuts.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:31, , Reply)
This is a normal post hello, microbiologist here....
"Colloidal Silver has been tested at numerous laboratories. It appears to be effective on microbiological organisms because it carries an electrical charge opposite to that of most pathogens."

so-called pathogens do not have a special electrical charge compared to any other micro organisms. So this means that if this really is working you're killing your own microbial flora in your body, in which case you should be feeling pretty shit by now.

do you know what your problem is??

"Oracle Press"
"Healing Wisdom Publications"
"Runcorn Health Laboratory"
"The Silver Institute"

there... that's your problem.

hippies, idiots and bullshit-artists the lot of them.
 (I helped save b3ta! The little pink animal is mostly harmless, except on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:54, , Reply)
This is a normal post
some reports you are willing to recoginse?:

Dr. Peter L. Reynolds, Ph.D., sub-titled "the safe silver" lists aliments and diseases treated with colloidal silver

Certified Nutritionist Zane Baranowski published a similar list in "The Natural Antibiotic Alternative."

In the US the FDA classifies it as a pre 1938 drug and still allows it to be used so long as such products are 'advertised and labelled for the same use as in 1938 and manufactured in the original manner.'

also seeing as your a micro biologist check out the uses and successes and ailments by the medical industry before the more profitable anti-biotics replaced its uses
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:25, , Reply)
This is a normal post Hello, microbiologist here too
And I agree.

The Goat - you are talking pure unadulterated bollocks.
 (I helped save b3ta! sm.pl.crt.rs I don't fucking know, do I?, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:39, , Reply)
This is a normal post Saw who she represents
Will wait for Ben Goldacre to pick this one apart...
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:48, , Reply)
This is a normal post He's on our show on Sunday
I doubt I'll get time to ask him about it though...
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post ooh what show is that?

(I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post The Naked Scientists
www.thenakedscientists.com
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:56, , Reply)
This is a normal post Shall try to have a listen to that!

(I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 12:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post I'll post the podcast here anyway
it'll be out next Tuesday. Just getting Sunday's show online now.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:00, , Reply)
This is a normal post The bigger problem is GM foods
As soon as most farmers are planting GM foods (which have a gene inserted into them to prevent using the crop as seed), and do not have stocks of normal seed, then the GM seed companies (mainly American) will have controll over world food production and can dictate the cost and availability of seed, a better weapon than nukes.
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ummm - no.
What's your concern here? Is it GM, per se, or what some people might do with it? Genetic modification is very promising - unless you happen to be a fan of famine and desertification...
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post /\ this with fucking bells on
Im sick of the anti-gm lot..

Weve been genetical-modifying plants and animals since time immemorial, just these days we take a short cut.

And I'm not just saying this because I want a Bear-Wolf-Eagle hybrid for a pet...

EDIT- also, all this opposition to legislation and Gm etc and progress is because of a fear thart "the bad men might do bad with it".. thats no way to go about life.. Its the motherfucking future biatches! lets go nuts with the science! BRING ON THE NUCLEAR FUSION BABEY! WOOOO! YEAH! *crushes beer can on head*
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post I'm still waiting for my hover car

(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post Wrong
We have not been genetically modifying anything up until now, we have been selective breeding which is not inserting cow-arse genes into frogs brains to make a nice soup.
 (I helped save b3ta! Brandy_Bumwinkle, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post You are Heston Blumenthal.
AICMFP.
 (I helped save b3ta! Smallbrainfield, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post I have no problem with genes from a species being mixed with other members of the same species by natural means
I think that inserting human genes into goats is an abomination
I think that destuctor genes in GM food crops is a means to make more money for the seed companies
I think that the human population has to live within the natural resources available and if birth controll doesnt keep it in check then starvation will, and GM foods will make the situation worse



EDIT
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1141105/Were-raising-GM-goats-make-human-breast-milk-say-Russians.html



ps I am an atheist
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post ...
Abomination by what standard? What, precisely, is so wrong with "cybrids"? Or is this just a knee-jerk "yuk" factor? (Note that, genetically, we're rather closely related already...)

Yes, there might be a problem with destructor genes. Then again, there might not. There's no such thing as a good or bad gene; it all depends on how it's used and in what context.

You'd really rather see mass starvation than GM food? REALLY? Tell that to the huddled masses of Africa and Asia.

What do you mean by "natural" resources, by the way? "Natural" as in factory-farmed? As in living in houses? Given that humans are part of nature, how is it possible not to be natural? And why would that be a moral problem anyway? Alternatively, if you're going to condemn GM technology as unnatural, shouldn't you also be condemning farming and house-dwelling as unnatural?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post and as for your update...
... So what if goats make human milk? If a woman can't, and granted that human milk is a good thing to provide, why not goats, or machines, or anything else?

From this point of view, the breast is just a nutrient-making machine. If you can get the same nutrient "artificially", then what's the problem?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post I am a firm believer in evolution and survival of the fittest
And fully accept that means that unfit individuals do not survive (however sad that may be)
The biggest problem with GM technology is the malicious (or accidental) manufacture of harmfull organisms capable of great harm.
Imagine the flu virus being GM combined with the AIDS virus, the more GM technology is used and advanced the more liklihood of a disasterous "accident"
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post But that's utterly idiotic
It's a bit like saying that it's OK not to rescue a child who's about to drown and whom you could save easily, and trying to say that her lack of gills is what makes it OK. It's complete nonsense.

"Unfitness" in your slightly sinister understanding is not a reason not to assist.

As for your second point - it's trite. In effect, what you're saying is that it's problematic to do problematic stuff. Woo-hoo. What's your evidence about the likelihood of a disaster? Is making nutritionally-enhanced golden rice a disaster?

And, either way, if there is such a disaster, by the lights of your first point, you ought to be indifferent, because we're obviously not fit to survive it.

You're making Ayn Rand look sensible.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't see what that adds.
There was a fuck up here, by the looks of it. But to think that that tells you anything about GM in abstracto is a bit like thinking that a road accident tells you that using a car is wrong.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post That's nice.
Lets hope you never have any kids who develop diabetes or anything.
 (symbiotic_alien is running on empty..., Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post Viruses have been sticking bits of DNA in other creatures for millenia
But that's okay because we didn't do it?

Edit - though I do agree that the human population is a big problem, but letting people starve is not the way forward - it will lead to instability, radicalisation and wars, rather than leading to the realisation the 2 children per couple is the only sustainable birth rate.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post I fully accept your point about viruses (Genes were often damaged by chemicals and radiation as well)
But when this happened in the past it was only small local populations that were wiped out.If/when it happens now it causes worldwide problems due to modern transport, consider the worldwide flu epidemic at the end of WW2 (spread by returning soldiers)
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post Is this supposed to be a demonstration of your well-thought-out objection?
If so, it doesn't impress. You've got the wrong war.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post wha?!
"I think that destuctor genes in GM food crops is a means to make more money for the seed companies"

um, no.
it's to prevent the GM stuff from breeding with the natural plantlife, which is an extremely important safety measure.

the seed companies might be gaining from this but it is an absolutely vital safety precaution for many, many reasons.
 (I helped save b3ta! The little pink animal is mostly harmless, except on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post well said
terminator seeds
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post So you would rather have GM plants that are capable of seeding themselves into the wild?
GM plants could reduce our reliance on pesticides, increase biodiversity, improve yields, allow good crops to be grown in presently sterile soils...

Do you realise that Southern Africa's maize production is estimated to drop by 30% in the next 20 years? If we have crops, GM or otherwise, that can cope with the changing climate, then we need to use them.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post blimey where do I start
1.study shows GM crops 'no better'
www.guardian.co.uk/environment/1999/jul/08/food.gm

2. Loss of farmers access to plant material and it encourages dependancy of small farnmers on large Agri Corps (who put profit before health and couldn't give a toss about feeding the hungry unless there was a buck to be made) - witness the Inian farmers committing suicide as a result

3. no long term studies on effects of human health

4, Genes can mutate with harmful effect

5. the problem of food production like alot of things in africa is down to miss management, under funding and corruption - you do not need GM food to solve this

and 6. a BIG point
run for profit organisations holding Intellectual property rights on food production!!
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post Very quick point...
... A couple of months ago, weren't you decrying a law in America that you alleged undermined IP protection? That being the case, you seem to have changed your tune quite a bit...

The point is that, if we overhaul IP law internationally - and very few IP lawyers think that the system works, by the way - then that'd solve the problems with points 2 and 5.

As for 3, well - OK. Ignorance is no reason not to proceed though. There is also no reason to suspect that there would be harmful consequence.
4 - well, yes. That applies in nature, too. I don't see how taking control of genes makes that danger worse.

I can't be arsed with going into more detail. Work to do.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post I would rather have no GM products at all
The answer for S.A. is to stop their population explosion by birth controll
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post that's all jolly good and all
but if we stop using GM crops tomorrow we'll have real problems within a year or two, while your little birth controll idea won't give results within the next 80 years when a large enough chunk of the population has died off.
what are we going to do during that time?
any ideas?


not a single fucking one of the plants that we grow and eat now looked like that when people found them and started growing them.
We've been messing with our crop plants for a good few thousand years now. GM is just a faster way of doing it.
 (I helped save b3ta! The little pink animal is mostly harmless, except on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post
what bollocks is this?

its not like you have a vested interst in it - like your a micro biologist..oh wait

also:www.guardian.co.uk/environment/1999/jul/08/food.gm


food shortages and production is a more complex issue having roots in mismanagement and politics that 'overpopulation'

for exanmple the north west african famine has more to do with the civil war and inability for the population to plant its harvest - (which is making it harder for them to deal with the drough) - trhe politics and corruption and poverty (selling off of national assets to foreign multi nationals as a prerequisite of deals with IMF loans) ar e all more serious factors than numbers of people

introducting more dependancy on the western multi-nationals is most certainly not the way to go for these people and neither is run for profit organisations holding Intellectual property rights on their food production
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:36, , Reply)
This is a normal post That was boring

(I helped save b3ta! WormuIus, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post Is it Friday?

(socynicalsohip, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post fuck me
that was a long discussion.

well done.
 (I helped save b3ta! null and void, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 18:31, , Reply)
This is a normal post just wanted to join in
and not feel left out...


/late again blog
 (I helped save b3ta! Avast is still alive!!!!, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 21:27, , Reply)