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This is a normal post The bigger problem is GM foods
As soon as most farmers are planting GM foods (which have a gene inserted into them to prevent using the crop as seed), and do not have stocks of normal seed, then the GM seed companies (mainly American) will have controll over world food production and can dictate the cost and availability of seed, a better weapon than nukes.
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ummm - no.
What's your concern here? Is it GM, per se, or what some people might do with it? Genetic modification is very promising - unless you happen to be a fan of famine and desertification...
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post /\ this with fucking bells on
Im sick of the anti-gm lot..

Weve been genetical-modifying plants and animals since time immemorial, just these days we take a short cut.

And I'm not just saying this because I want a Bear-Wolf-Eagle hybrid for a pet...

EDIT- also, all this opposition to legislation and Gm etc and progress is because of a fear thart "the bad men might do bad with it".. thats no way to go about life.. Its the motherfucking future biatches! lets go nuts with the science! BRING ON THE NUCLEAR FUSION BABEY! WOOOO! YEAH! *crushes beer can on head*
 (I helped save b3ta! Jorvic, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post I'm still waiting for my hover car

(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post Wrong
We have not been genetically modifying anything up until now, we have been selective breeding which is not inserting cow-arse genes into frogs brains to make a nice soup.
 (I helped save b3ta! Brandy_Bumwinkle, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post You are Heston Blumenthal.
AICMFP.
 (I helped save b3ta! Smallbrainfield, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post I have no problem with genes from a species being mixed with other members of the same species by natural means
I think that inserting human genes into goats is an abomination
I think that destuctor genes in GM food crops is a means to make more money for the seed companies
I think that the human population has to live within the natural resources available and if birth controll doesnt keep it in check then starvation will, and GM foods will make the situation worse



EDIT
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1141105/Were-raising-GM-goats-make-human-breast-milk-say-Russians.html



ps I am an atheist
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post ...
Abomination by what standard? What, precisely, is so wrong with "cybrids"? Or is this just a knee-jerk "yuk" factor? (Note that, genetically, we're rather closely related already...)

Yes, there might be a problem with destructor genes. Then again, there might not. There's no such thing as a good or bad gene; it all depends on how it's used and in what context.

You'd really rather see mass starvation than GM food? REALLY? Tell that to the huddled masses of Africa and Asia.

What do you mean by "natural" resources, by the way? "Natural" as in factory-farmed? As in living in houses? Given that humans are part of nature, how is it possible not to be natural? And why would that be a moral problem anyway? Alternatively, if you're going to condemn GM technology as unnatural, shouldn't you also be condemning farming and house-dwelling as unnatural?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post and as for your update...
... So what if goats make human milk? If a woman can't, and granted that human milk is a good thing to provide, why not goats, or machines, or anything else?

From this point of view, the breast is just a nutrient-making machine. If you can get the same nutrient "artificially", then what's the problem?
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post I am a firm believer in evolution and survival of the fittest
And fully accept that means that unfit individuals do not survive (however sad that may be)
The biggest problem with GM technology is the malicious (or accidental) manufacture of harmfull organisms capable of great harm.
Imagine the flu virus being GM combined with the AIDS virus, the more GM technology is used and advanced the more liklihood of a disasterous "accident"
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post But that's utterly idiotic
It's a bit like saying that it's OK not to rescue a child who's about to drown and whom you could save easily, and trying to say that her lack of gills is what makes it OK. It's complete nonsense.

"Unfitness" in your slightly sinister understanding is not a reason not to assist.

As for your second point - it's trite. In effect, what you're saying is that it's problematic to do problematic stuff. Woo-hoo. What's your evidence about the likelihood of a disaster? Is making nutritionally-enhanced golden rice a disaster?

And, either way, if there is such a disaster, by the lights of your first point, you ought to be indifferent, because we're obviously not fit to survive it.

You're making Ayn Rand look sensible.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't see what that adds.
There was a fuck up here, by the looks of it. But to think that that tells you anything about GM in abstracto is a bit like thinking that a road accident tells you that using a car is wrong.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post That's nice.
Lets hope you never have any kids who develop diabetes or anything.
 (symbiotic_alien is running on empty..., Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post Viruses have been sticking bits of DNA in other creatures for millenia
But that's okay because we didn't do it?

Edit - though I do agree that the human population is a big problem, but letting people starve is not the way forward - it will lead to instability, radicalisation and wars, rather than leading to the realisation the 2 children per couple is the only sustainable birth rate.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post I fully accept your point about viruses (Genes were often damaged by chemicals and radiation as well)
But when this happened in the past it was only small local populations that were wiped out.If/when it happens now it causes worldwide problems due to modern transport, consider the worldwide flu epidemic at the end of WW2 (spread by returning soldiers)
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post Is this supposed to be a demonstration of your well-thought-out objection?
If so, it doesn't impress. You've got the wrong war.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 14:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post wha?!
"I think that destuctor genes in GM food crops is a means to make more money for the seed companies"

um, no.
it's to prevent the GM stuff from breeding with the natural plantlife, which is an extremely important safety measure.

the seed companies might be gaining from this but it is an absolutely vital safety precaution for many, many reasons.
 (I helped save b3ta! The little pink animal is mostly harmless, except on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post well said
terminator seeds
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:23, , Reply)
This is a normal post So you would rather have GM plants that are capable of seeding themselves into the wild?
GM plants could reduce our reliance on pesticides, increase biodiversity, improve yields, allow good crops to be grown in presently sterile soils...

Do you realise that Southern Africa's maize production is estimated to drop by 30% in the next 20 years? If we have crops, GM or otherwise, that can cope with the changing climate, then we need to use them.
 (I helped save b3ta! TheAlmightyBeev, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post blimey where do I start
1.study shows GM crops 'no better'
www.guardian.co.uk/environment/1999/jul/08/food.gm

2. Loss of farmers access to plant material and it encourages dependancy of small farnmers on large Agri Corps (who put profit before health and couldn't give a toss about feeding the hungry unless there was a buck to be made) - witness the Inian farmers committing suicide as a result

3. no long term studies on effects of human health

4, Genes can mutate with harmful effect

5. the problem of food production like alot of things in africa is down to miss management, under funding and corruption - you do not need GM food to solve this

and 6. a BIG point
run for profit organisations holding Intellectual property rights on food production!!
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post Very quick point...
... A couple of months ago, weren't you decrying a law in America that you alleged undermined IP protection? That being the case, you seem to have changed your tune quite a bit...

The point is that, if we overhaul IP law internationally - and very few IP lawyers think that the system works, by the way - then that'd solve the problems with points 2 and 5.

As for 3, well - OK. Ignorance is no reason not to proceed though. There is also no reason to suspect that there would be harmful consequence.
4 - well, yes. That applies in nature, too. I don't see how taking control of genes makes that danger worse.

I can't be arsed with going into more detail. Work to do.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:53, , Reply)
This is a normal post I would rather have no GM products at all
The answer for S.A. is to stop their population explosion by birth controll
 (I helped save b3ta! CanonCaliber A big bore, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post that's all jolly good and all
but if we stop using GM crops tomorrow we'll have real problems within a year or two, while your little birth controll idea won't give results within the next 80 years when a large enough chunk of the population has died off.
what are we going to do during that time?
any ideas?


not a single fucking one of the plants that we grow and eat now looked like that when people found them and started growing them.
We've been messing with our crop plants for a good few thousand years now. GM is just a faster way of doing it.
 (I helped save b3ta! The little pink animal is mostly harmless, except on, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 15:41, , Reply)
This is a normal post
what bollocks is this?

its not like you have a vested interst in it - like your a micro biologist..oh wait

also:www.guardian.co.uk/environment/1999/jul/08/food.gm


food shortages and production is a more complex issue having roots in mismanagement and politics that 'overpopulation'

for exanmple the north west african famine has more to do with the civil war and inability for the population to plant its harvest - (which is making it harder for them to deal with the drough) - trhe politics and corruption and poverty (selling off of national assets to foreign multi nationals as a prerequisite of deals with IMF loans) ar e all more serious factors than numbers of people

introducting more dependancy on the western multi-nationals is most certainly not the way to go for these people and neither is run for profit organisations holding Intellectual property rights on their food production
 (The Goat www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com, Tue 10 Mar 2009, 16:36, , Reply)