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This is a link post Scottish Government consultation on same-sex marriage
anyone here who lives in Scotland, please take the time to make your voice heard on this issue. The Catholic Church and their homoskeptic allies are apparently very much ahead in the polls at the moment.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:32, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm not gay (honest guv)
But i totally support the right of gay ppl to marry. Those that oppose to it are always fuelled by religion or bullshit. Have u ever heard a single reasonable and factual reason gays shouldnt marry? Me neither. Let them do as they please.
 (I helped save b3ta! Kung_Fu_Russ ran out of amusing signatures on, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:35, Reply)
This is a normal post This.
Incidentally I got sent this link by my church minister, there are a number of religious groups who are currently frustrated that they are not legally allowed to conduct civil partnerships, even though they'd be happy to.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:40, Reply)
This is a normal post The two arguments in favour of gay marriage that I like
If you don't like gay marriage, stop trying to marry a gay man
Why shouldn't they get married? Gay people have every right to be as miserable as the rest of us
 (I helped save b3ta! magnum, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:40, Reply)
This is a normal post Hahaha!

(I helped save b3ta! Kung_Fu_Russ ran out of amusing signatures on, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:40, Reply)
This is a normal post I like that second one
*writes it down*
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:05, Reply)
This is a normal post Given that marriage obliterates your sex life,
you'd think the Catholics would be all for it.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:08, Reply)
This is a normal post I don't need marriage to ruin my sex life
I've got a pair of fishing waders and a maggie thatcher mask in the cupboard waiting to do that for me
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:11, Reply)
This is a normal post Damn you for stealing my joke!

(I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:31, Reply)
This is a normal post I got it from Mark Thomas
can't remember if he was quoting someone else.
 (I helped save b3ta! magnum, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:19, Reply)
This is a normal post google suggests Kinky Friedman

(I helped save b3ta! magnum, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:21, Reply)
This is a normal post "If you don't like gay marriage, stop trying to marry a gay man"
makes me think: the same politicians in the US who want the government to meddle less with people's lives (less tax, less healthcare, fewer benefits, freedom to shoot your neighbour in the face with a concealed machine gun, etc) seem incredibly interested in what people do with their penises and vaginas.
 (I helped save b3ta! admiral crunch holds the newsreader's nose squarely, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:07, Reply)
This is a normal post I think if two straight men got married it would be great
but there would be no sex - just like conventional marriages (to retell the same joke as earlier).
 (I helped save b3ta! gaijintendo Regular Member, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 8:05, Reply)
This is a normal post Every now and then I get confused about this
why do people want to be seen as married in this very specific sense?
What benefit is there in having a made up union in the eyes of a homophobic lord whose minions are as corrupt and kiddy fiddling as the media makes out.

If it's just about the paperwork/benefits surely a better campaign would be to completely remove all legal rights from such crazy religious traditions.
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:39, Reply)
This is a normal post It's not just religious people who get married, though, is it?
A civil service in a registry office is still a marriage.
And not all religions are homophobic.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:41, Reply)
This is a normal post is there not civil partnership in scotland?
I didn't know that
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:47, Reply)
This is a normal post There is, although you can't have one in a church, even if the church wants to.
It's not the same institution as marriage, it just conveys similar rights.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:49, Reply)
This is a normal post ok, so if you can be registered as together in the eyes of the law and have the same rights,
why would you want to go the very specific route and marry in a church that generally stands against what you believe in?

I've never understood the whole church thing. If two people want to be together, what business is it of religion?
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:57, Reply)
This is a normal post Well they wouldn't want to get married in a church that was opposed to it, would they?
The points are:
1. they can't even get a civil partnership in a church (or any other religious establishment) that ISN'T homophobic, and this is in violation of religious freedom (the Government is almost saying that religions have to be homophobic.)
2. marriage isn't the same thing as civil partnership. It's a separate institution and that's discrimination. (Straight people can't get a civil partnership either) and gay people want to get MARRIED, the same as straight people, Civil Partnerships were a compromise to bigots in the first place.

Personally I'd be happy if marriage was completely deregulated, because to me it's essentially a social thing that I don't think the state should have a say in. But clearly I'm against the grain here because they recently abolished common-law marriage altogether.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:03, Reply)
This is a normal post SOMEONE BROUGHT UP RELIGION ON /LINKS AGAIN

(I helped save b3ta! Lord Keeps meaning to procrastinate., Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:00, Reply)
This is a normal post I thought I was bringing up gay marriage,
but someone always has to have a go.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:06, Reply)
This is a normal post because believe it or not
not all churches are full of rabidly homophobic kiddie fiddlers.

I know quite a number of openly gay christians, who worship at churches that support them and their relationships - who would dearly love to celebrate their love for each other in a church with all their friends and family.

Currently the closest you can get to that is a civil ceremony followed by a blessing in the church - which doesn't really feel the same does it.

What *I* don't get is how some churches can be so vocal about "your church shouldn't be allowed to marry poofs, because if you are we'll have to do it too and we don't want to!"

I truly don't follow that train of thought at all.

disclosure: I'm a massive poof, but am ignostic
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:04, Reply)
This is a normal post I wouldn't force a homophobic church to conduct gay marriages,
that would just be pointless. That's a separate question on the form, anyway.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:10, Reply)
This is a normal post regardless of how accepting and supporting a particular christian church, parish or even religious sect are, the religion itself is homophobic
it seems odd to me that people can't see that worshipping a god that according to the religion's own scripture would condemn you for your behaviour is counter-intuitive.

to be fair though, most people would be condemned to hell if they were to take the whole bible seriously. it seems that the majority of religious people are very selective about which bits of the book they take notice of
 (I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:17, Reply)
This is a normal post It's not just about Christianity though, it's all religion,
my own (Unitarian) church doesn't even insist that the Bible is the word of God; I don't know what the Quaker's stance on scripture is but I know they're backing this, as well as the Liberal Jews.

I shouldn't need to point out that the Bible is very much open to interpretation. I actually quoted 1 Corinthians 7:9 on the form.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:22, Reply)
This is a normal post i don't know why i'm asking this, as i'm not sure i care
but if your religion uses the bible and it's concepts as it's base, but doesn't actually believe what it says is actually true, what's the fucking point of that?
 (I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:32, Reply)
This is a normal post Well, quite.
The point is though that not every religion does, and it's no business of the state if it does or not.

BUT ask any Rabbi, Liberal or otherwise, and they'll tell you that Leviticus prohibits bumsex, not Special Best Friends Forever.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:34, Reply)
This is a normal post As a Quaker I believe that all religious texts have some merit however none should be taken literally.
There's also the concept of continuous revelation however this is not something I ascribe to.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 2:37, Reply)
This is a normal post "I shouldn't need to point out that the Bible is very much open to interpretation"
lucky no-one stakes their chance for immortality or base their entire life around it then eh?
 (I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:41, Reply)
This is a normal post their own interpretation is their own business

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:44, Reply)
This is a normal post so why do religious people keep trying to push that interpretation on other people?
bah!
 (I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:48, Reply)
This is a normal post what you mean the Catholics and their homoskeptical lobbying?
well quite. I don't know what goes through their minds to be honest but I don't think the government should be pandering to it. Which is why I put my tuppenceworth on that there form.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:50, Reply)
This is a normal post I think you've missed my point
If you say that the bible is "very much open to interpretation" then you're saying that it isn't clear about its message. And if the bible isn't clear about what it's saying, why on earth would you base your life around it?
 (I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:03, Reply)
This is a normal post Some bits are clearer than others, of course.
According to Rudolph Bultmann, all you need to believe in to be a Christian is Christ crucified. I think it's fairly clear on at least that much.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:15, Reply)
This is a normal post Hmmm either you're avoiding an argument or you don't have an answer
Not sure which, but I hope for your sake you just don't like confrontation.
 (I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:19, Reply)
This is a normal post It's not an argument I came here for,
and not one I really want right now.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:21, Reply)
This is a normal post Fair enough
Glad you're more secure in your religion than you first appear.
 (I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:23, Reply)
This is a normal post ffs
"the religion itself is homophobic" - only to the same inherent level as it being anti beard shaving, or pro-slavery.

I repeat, I'm not christian I'm ignostic. I'm also pro-choice when it comes to churches.
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:24, Reply)
This is a normal post that's all covered by my second paragraph

(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:30, Reply)
This is a normal post wait...
have I misunderstood, or are you saying gays shouldn't be allowed to marry in a church because the men at that church don't have beards?
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:42, Reply)
This is a normal post you have misunderstood
gays should have the same rights as anyone to do whatever the fuck they like. and religion is stupid
 (I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:47, Reply)
This is a normal post Also, some people just like the idea of being married
Civil partnership is hardly the most romantic sounding concept. Besides, simply the fact that gay marriage is not allowed conveys a lower status upon homosexual relationships, even if it is only on a symbolic level
 (I helped save b3ta! Photoshop Bitch 2014 edition, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:15, Reply)
This is a normal post this^

(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:17, Reply)
This is a normal post what's worse,
if you're married and you get a sex change, BANG and the marriage is gone. Doesn't matter if you still love each other.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:24, Reply)
This is a normal post Jan Morris is an interesting case
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Morris
Marriage and then later a civil partnership with the same person
 (I helped save b3ta! Mousing, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:31, Reply)
This is a normal post True, although actually that's only the case if you get a Gender Recognition Certificate
which is optional. But by the same token it means a transexual woman has to get the Gender Recognition Certificate if she wants to marry a man.
 (I helped save b3ta! Photoshop Bitch 2014 edition, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:44, Reply)
This is a normal post this is the biggest issue, I think
It's state-sponsored segregation, marking out gay couples' relationships as 'different'
 (I helped save b3ta! Mousing, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:26, Reply)
This is a normal post Do you agree that misleading questions are an inappropriate way to conduct unbiased studies?
Do you agree that gay marriage is OK because that lovely Elton chap is very nice isn't he, whereas those Catholics are a bit mean (that Ratzinger fella was in the SS, you know)?
 (I helped save b3ta! admiral crunch holds the newsreader's nose squarely, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:44, Reply)
This is a normal post Unbiased or not, it's all we've got to work with.

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 21:46, Reply)
This is a normal post speaking as a bumder who finds religious politics unendingly fascinating
I think there is an inherent problem with asking for the right to have religious same sex marriage. Many religious people still hear "we're going to force your religion to conduct same sex marriage".

I personally believe that countries like France and Turkey have an excellent system whereby *only* the state ceremony is the legally binding one. The religious institutions there have no power to perform legal marriage, meaning you avoid this entire political palaver in the first place.

In those countries (along with Russia, Japan, Germany, Spain, Argentina), people must be married by a registrar first, and then they can have all the religious la-de-da that they want.

Take legal marriage away from the religions. THAT would be marriage equality.
 (I helped save b3ta! admiral crunch holds the newsreader's nose squarely, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:01, Reply)
This is a normal post The romantic side of me agrees with you.
The practical side of me sees legal issues.
 (I helped save b3ta! admiral crunch holds the newsreader's nose squarely, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:40, Reply)
This is a normal post oh very much this ^

(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 5:23, Reply)
This is a normal post Meh

The government really haven't thought this one through. They want to stimulate the economy? Can you imagine what would happen to the wedding present industry if they allowed gay marriage?

cheers
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:14, Reply)
This is a normal post haha
oh it would just be FABULOUS!
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:17, Reply)
This is a normal post the wedding planning industry would be worth more than the banks
Then again, my pocket change is worth more than some UK banks at the moment...
 (I helped save b3ta! admiral crunch holds the newsreader's nose squarely, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:03, Reply)
This is a normal post I know a couple who are patiently waiting for heterosexual civil partnerships to become available.
Only couple I've met that are trying for that, but I wonder if it'll become more popular in the coming years.
 (I helped save b3ta! Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:24, Reply)
This is a normal post Personally I'm totally against gay marriage
Most of them just invite SOME of their internet friends and completely ignore others......

*shoots snidey look at Tabby's back while he clicks his cuban heels and downs another cocktail*
 (I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:34, Reply)
This is a normal post be careful flouncing like that
you might trip up and take another bite out of the kerb ;-)
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:47, Reply)
This is a normal post :D
...and you and tab will be just waiting in the shadows
 (I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:59, Reply)
This is a normal post here...
does this hanky smell like clorophorm to you?
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:06, Reply)
This is a normal post Needs moar "h"

(I helped save b3ta! Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:32, Reply)
This is a normal post Oh, I don't know, let me have a...
HANG ON! Actually, go on then

*sniffs and lubes*
 (I helped save b3ta! Sheriff John Bunnell https://twitter.com/thewonderfulgam, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 23:34, Reply)
This is a normal post done!
cheers for pointing that out.
 (I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Mon 21 Nov 2011, 22:50, Reply)
This is a normal post Can you be "married" in a civil partnership to the opposite sex?
Not being sarcy, genuinely interested.
 (I helped save b3ta! vix0r was not Matthew on, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:11, Reply)
This is a normal post Not sure what you're asking here...
Only mixed-sex couples can currently get married. Only same-sex couples can currently get a civil partnership. The two things are supposed to convey the same rights (so we are told) but the fact that they are still legally separate institutions leads to certain technicalities.

"Marriage" doesn't mean "religious". A registry office marriage is legally the same thing as a marriage conducted in a church.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:18, Reply)
This is a normal post It wasn't the religious aspect I was asking for.
You answered my question anyway though! Thank you. =D

I read once that in France opposite sex couples were joining in civil partnerships instead of being "married" (all these terms...) as they didn't want marriage but did want the legal benefits of being a couple. I was wondering if that could be done here.
 (I helped save b3ta! vix0r was not Matthew on, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:35, Reply)
This is a normal post I don't personally see the point in having two separate but identical institutions,
I don't know what the socio-religious politics are like in France but I get the impression they've been tending towards generally anti-religious sentiments since the revolution. We don't as a nation have the same culture of separation of church and state as they do. They actually banned Burkas, I don't think that would be possible here. Religious freedom is more our thing.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:45, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm always amused by how most
religions are supposed to be against getting drunk (drunkenness is actually listed alongside bumming in its only mention in the New Testament), and yet most religious weddings are followed by an alcohol heavy reception and no religious people ever complain about that.

It is interesting what a big issue homosexuality has become in the church, considering what a small issue it is in the bible. It seems to me like people are led by a group mentality hearsay interpretation of the bible, far more than what it actually says - which obviously makes 'their' faith easy to abuse by bigoted leaders.
 (I helped save b3ta! monkeon schmonkeon, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:18, Reply)
This is a normal post in fact Jesus himself quite famously once provided wine at a wedding...

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 0:55, Reply)
This is a normal post I would recommend "Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality" by John Boswell
to anyone wanting to seriously explore the issue of homosexuality and Christianity/ the Bible.

It appears very few times, and when it does it is dubious, for example some of the words currently translated as "homosexual" were previously translated (up until around 40 years ago) as "five knuckle-shufflers".

There is also the idea that a modern, loving, egalitarian homosexual relationship is closer to the sort of intimate friendships enjoyed by, for example, Ruth and Naomi and Jonathan and David in the Bible, which are celebrated, than to the type of acts the Bible (possibly) describes.
 (I helped save b3ta! lucifer101, Tue 22 Nov 2011, 17:42, Reply)