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This is a link post The Tory's Back to Work Programme is ruled to be Forced Labour and Slavery
Should lead to anyone who refused to work for nothing and had their benefits stopped getting it all back. That is of course if they find out about it from whatever hostel or cardboard box they now live in.
 (I helped save b3ta! slartifartfast When all around are losing their heads, duck., Tue 12 Feb 2013, 10:44, , Reply)
This is a normal post when I was on the dole
I wasn't even allowed to work for free. Well, not for a company that could be "reasonably expecte4d" to pay its staff. I did do voluntary work for a charity, but there were rules about how many hours you were allowed to do.

One time at a careers fair I spoke to a man about how to get a job in finance (because that's apparently what people with science degrees are expected to do), and the cheeky cunt actually said I should expect for free for a year! For a BANK!
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 10:54, , Reply)
This is a normal post Ha!!!
I love that, they make out they're doing you a favour and you should be grateful for the 'opportunity' too.
 (I helped save b3ta! Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 10:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah, great,
work for the most profitable industry on the planet for nothing for a year, with not even any benefits to live on, that would work.

I guess Mummy and Daddy are supposed to pay your way. Class mobility. Great.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post its called an 'internship'
widely used in the industry as a 'rite of passage'
 (Spin Its a thing., Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:47, , Reply)
This is a normal post Do post graduates do internships?
I thought they were usually done during a degree course, not after.
 (I helped save b3ta! Fadgebadger (1 like), Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post yes because a degree is often not vocational...
and jobs are about leaning how to do the actual job... the amount of post graduates that i have interviewed who think they could literally walk in and work, is incredible, some genuinely think the degree they have means they can do whatever "job" they want.
 (DefyingDarwin Old, untalented and white,, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:56, , Reply)
This is a normal post I'm not a graduate.
Aside from doing a (very) basic home learning course, I taught myself everything about the job I do now. It wasn't as easy as you think, and I had to do a load of free work over many months outside of a normal 40 hour a week shift job, just to bolster my skills and experience enough to warrant landing a full-time position. I still work stoopid hours, but at least I love what I do.
 (I helped save b3ta! Fadgebadger (1 like), Tue 12 Feb 2013, 14:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yeah I was led to believe that, too,
someone please explain the situation to my parents.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 14:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Oh be quiet.
Lots of companies do internships for low pay. I was a runner at a place in Soho for a year and was basically a slave. .
 (I helped save b3ta! JamTallons, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post so what's ok for the private sector
is terrible for the government.

No, I won't be quiet. Slavery is terrible wherever it happens, and just because you shut up and put up doesn't change that.

Anyway, out of curiosity, how did you live?
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:57, , Reply)
This is a normal post What???
Grow up! You bring the tedious greedy bankers and class bulls*hit up all the time and this has got nothing to do with it. F*cking tedious.
 (I helped save b3ta! JamTallons, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:59, , Reply)
This is a normal post *Gets popcorn*
*Puts on 3D specs*
 (I helped save b3ta! Fadgebadger (1 like), Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:00, , Reply)
This is a normal post Oh right.
I am immature because I think slavery is unacceptable.

Ok.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:04, , Reply)
This is a normal post you're immature because...
you compare a workfare (as opposed to welfare) scheme to slavery. beyond hyperbole, just utterly fatuous really. do you actually know what the reality of slavery was?
 (itilliterate, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:00, , Reply)
This is a normal post JamTallons compared his own internship to slavery.
His words, not mine.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:04, , Reply)
This is a normal post he was clearly employing hyperbole to illustrate how shit it was...
you are using it as you wallow in your self-righteous poltical indignation. it's pretty fucking sick to compare low wages to slavery and shows profound ignorance. it's real SWP bullshit.
 (itilliterate, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post ok how about
"The Tory's Back to Work Programme is ruled to be Forced Labour and Slavery"
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post it wasn't.
read the ruling. it's been ruled unlawful. largely down to our old friend the HRA as derived from the ECHR. the judge did not describe it as forced labour and certainly not as slavery. that's just SWP bullshit and lies.
 (itilliterate, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:39, , Reply)
This is a normal post the one who started the thread said it.
ok how about www.b3ta.com/links/943780
"We did outlaw slavery in this country, right?"
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post uh, yes, we did...
would you like to borrow my Amistad DVD?* you really seem to have a great deal of difficulty understanding the true meaning of a very fucking simple word.

*oh, i don't have that DVD. how about Watership Down?
 (itilliterate, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:56, , Reply)
This is a normal post I'm just trying to point out
that three people compared unpaid work to slavery before I did, and somehow I'm the only one to be called immature for repeating it, in a direct reply, the point of which is to call out the fallacy of the argument, "I had to do it, therefore it's fine".

I didn't even make the comparison myself. Three other people did and got away with it.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 14:03, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah, it's called injustice...
get used to it, slave. now go and make me a sandwich.
 (itilliterate, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 14:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post I was a runner at a place in Soho for a year and was basically a slave. .
Who compared what now to what now?
And we all know what slavery was like, we watched Django Unchained
 (I helped save b3ta! A Rory Borealis here under duress, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post I haven't seen it yet,
no spoilers pls
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post I did lots of unpaid "work experience"
From about the age of 14 upwards. How did I afford it? I lived with my folks (as you would expect at that age) and I had a weekend paper round which paid for my travel (which was £1.20 a day to get to anywhere in London).

This enabled me to have a much better CV than my peers which I began looking for work, so I got a better salary.

An internship or work experience is NOT the same as slavery. Slaves have no choice or say in the matter and there is a massive massive distinction.

Saying the two are the same IS simply wrong.
 (I helped save b3ta! DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:02, , Reply)
This is a normal post Fair enough.
But it still seems wrong and exploitative to me to expect a grown adult (graduate or otherwise) to work for nothing.

"I put up with it, why shouldn't everybody else?" is not a valid argument.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:12, , Reply)
This is a normal post But they aren't any use yet
What sort of useful computer work (for example) would I expect to get from an untrained 14 year old.

Essentially you're really giving them free training at the expense of one of your paid employees time.

Cash isn't the only for of renumeration; Skills and experience are worth something, thats what I'm trying to say.

For a year? You're joking. But for a few weeks/months it can make perfect sense.
 (I helped save b3ta! DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yeah I'm not talking about an untrained 14 year old though,
I'm talking about a 22 year old, with a degree. And bills to pay.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:21, , Reply)
This is a normal post Was it an arts degree?

(I helped save b3ta! DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post in my case, no.
it was Theoretical Physics.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:34, , Reply)
This is a normal post Learn PHP/HTML in about a week then
And get a job coding. You'll have no issues getting one with ease. Hell string theory and quantum mechanics are a lot more complex than that.
 (I helped save b3ta! DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post That was a long time ago.
I've got 3 years experience in C++ now, thanks to nepotism.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post One of the funniest moments I remember
was having a poo before my animal physiology exam, nervous as hell, when finished I reached for the paper and on the first sheet was written
"arts degree - please take one"
 (I helped save b3ta! A Rory Borealis here under duress, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:38, , Reply)
This is a normal post they are NOT working for nothing...
it's simply that for the period of their placement, they are not getting their 'benefits' for nothing. for some of them it could be quite an eye-opener, how the other half lives.
 (itilliterate, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:26, , Reply)
This is a normal post this is about unpaid internships in banks.
you don't get benefits while you are doing one of those.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 13:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post Lots of companies do it,
so that makes it ok?
 (I helped save b3ta! Zuowan, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 14:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post fucking sound man!
off now to sign on now! im going to look so smug today in the dole. anyone fancy a pint im paying.
 (I helped save b3ta! Sgt. Welt, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:11, , Reply)
This is a normal post Fucking hell
.."working unpaid for 30 hours per week for six months"

Leaving him what time to actually properly look for a paid job?
 (I helped save b3ta! Jahled Three shades of black, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yeah, that's a bit excessive.

(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:50, , Reply)
This is a normal post Paid job? Think of the loss in profits to the shareholders and the bosses!
The economy would crumble ;)

We did outlaw slavery in this country, right?
 (I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't think so.
Have you seen Tabbys dungeon?
 (I helped save b3ta! Fadgebadger (1 like), Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post I think there was that once when I woke up with a canvas sack over my head but it's all a bit fuzzy
and I've convinced myself that it was just some terrible nightmare.
 (I helped save b3ta! maiden is filmed before a live studio audience, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post Myeh. Lower it to two 4.5 hour shifts a week, scrap JSA completely and give them the equivalent minimum wage.

(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:50, , Reply)
This is a normal post I wouldn't actually have minded doing that,
it would have given me experience, at least. But they didn't even want me to look for part time jobs. To claim JSA "you have to be looking for full time work," even though that would have got me off benefits and there was no way I was going to get a full time job with no experience.

Stupid system is stupid.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 11:55, , Reply)
This is a normal post Depends what you count as full time/part time.
Part time is (as far as I'm aware) anything 15 hours or under.
 (I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post I thought it was 30 hours,
but even 15 hours at minimum wage is more than JSA.

For the purposes of tax credits, it was 15 hours if you had kids, and 30 hours otherwise.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:06, , Reply)
This is a normal post For the college I work at full time study is counted as 15+ hours a week.
The council say 17.5+ hours for council tax exemption for full time students, and someone else I can't quite remember insists on 21+ hours.

I also got a bit of a telling off for refering to the part-time admin as part-time depsite the fact she works almost half the hours I do, because she works 15+.
 (I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post full time study might not be the same as full time work,
also this was about the hours I was supposed to be looking for, not the hours I was already doing. Or they might have just been talking shit, or the rules might have changed since then, it was almost 10 years ago.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't seem to remember them telling me I couldn't look for part time work when I was on JSA.

(I helped save b3ta! Mu Dinofiddler, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't remember reading it in the rules,
but one time I printed off a couple of part-time job placements from the machine, and when I took them to my advisor he advised me that "you do realise we expect you to look for full time work," which surprised me then as much as it surprises you now.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post You can do part-time work (under 16 hours a week, paid or voluntary) whilst on JSA,
as long as you declare any earnings when you sign on, so it can be deducted from your JSA. However, you still have to be seeking full-time work to continue to be eligible for JSA.

This is specific to JSA -- there are other benefits available to people working over 16 hours a week, or who are unable to work full-time.
 (I helped save b3ta! Happosai _,,,,_(O ; o)_,,,, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:52, , Reply)
This is a normal post Late reply, but you're wrong
www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/reilly-wilson-v-secretary-state.pdf

Paragraph 35 (shortest thing in the whole document) says: "The judge found no breach of article 4". (EU thing on slavery and forced labour)

The ruling is that the regulations exceeded the bounds allowed under relevant legislation to some extent, but that notification and disclosure was definitely insufficient.
 (I helped save b3ta! prince-igor si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses, Tue 12 Feb 2013, 15:28, , Reply)