It's fair to say given the choice the majority of people would tax avoid
no matter how hard they might wring their hands
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:34, 5 replies, latest was 12 years ago)

i would

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:35, Reply)

Same

( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:35, Reply)

I think if big business was hounded the way the rest of us are about our tax then it might seem less annoying to pay it.

( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:36, Reply)

If big business paid their tax
our tax could be significantly reduced. Unfortunately, the government won't do so because the companies would just move somewhere else.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:39, Reply)

So...........this is why everyone wants to get round paying it.
It's not fair Kroney.
( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:41, Reply)

For "unfair" see also "life"

( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:42, Reply)

It irriatates me the way politicians go on about "fairness" these days
Anyone over the age of 8 complaining about things not being fair needs to grow the fuck up
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:47, Reply)

Oi!
I am grown up. This is why I have to pay fucking tax.
( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:49, Reply)

which is like, so totally unfair!

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:57, Reply)

Rich individuals are also a big place to start.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:41, Reply)

Which is why they move themselves to Lichtenstein.

( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:43, Reply)

Fuck them, let them all swan off.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:01, Reply)

move somewhere else stop "donating" to their political party.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:45, Reply)

i'd just leave the country in my helicopter

(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:36, Reply)

I'd happily jetset around
making the occasional public appearance for mencap spasmo's
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:38, Reply)

i wouldn't
fuck 'em
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:41, Reply)

Or /offtopic as we call it

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:41, Reply)

*drools*

( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:48, Reply)

I wouldn't.

Although admittedly that's purely out of a fear of being exposed as a massive hypocrite after all my bashing of people who complain about the higher tax rate.
( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:37, Reply)

Listen man, even Saint Bob has been turned by the power of the darkside hedgefunds
you've got no hope in this hypothetical world of wealth
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:40, Reply)

No I wouldn't that argument is stupid.
I'd no more deliberatly avoid tax than I'd deliberatly not get a train ticket.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:39, Reply)

I know. It's like they think you're fucking Greek or something.

( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:39, Reply)

Well aren't you whiter than white
you fucking racist
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:40, Reply)

Lol

( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:40, Reply)

the scale of these things is completely different too
skipping a train a few stops is a bit naughty, conning the country out of millions because your a greedy cunt makes you a greedy cunt
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:41, Reply)

I can't think of anyone I know earning outside of paye who doesn't tax avoid
It's a very grey area
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:42, Reply)

^this
The more people earn, the less they want to pay tax and the easier it gets for them.
( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:45, Reply)

It shouldn't be though,
there's shouldn't be a borderline acceptance for it, it's wrong and it's damaging to the economy, the government and society.
Tax evasion and avoidance should become a shameful taboo and then we could get some lower taxes for everyone.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:45, Reply)

See my point above.
If we were all sure the rich and business were being told to cough up or else then we'd all be happier to chip in.
( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:46, Reply)

Thay should catagorise it under the same laws against fucking dogs

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:49, Reply)

You can't prescribe against it, it's human nature
It all gets fed back into the economy anyway, and will attract VAT, Stamp, CGT, IHT in any event.
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:49, Reply)

Via a K2 in Jersey?
I doubt it'll "all come out in the wash"
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:51, Reply)

He's at the extreme end of avoidance
Most avoidance that goes on is the likes of battered buying fivolous ipads as a 'necessary expence of the business' when really that's bollocks. Still attracts vat, and pays staff wages along the way though. It's not exactly turkmenistan.
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:55, Reply)

also
say battered earns £100k, so he pays £3k a month in tax. meanwhile someone else earns £25k a year, so he only pays £750 in tax.

if battered is already contributing £2,250 more per month in tax because of nothing more than his own hard work and abilities, does it matter quite as much if he then skanks a bit of ipad tax back?

moral dilemma...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:06, Reply)

human nature aint it
irrespective of rights or wrongs nobody will ever go 'please sir take some more', it's the opposite. You only have to look at the ongoing expenses scandal to see what the great and the good of the nation get up to, down to the chavs on the council estate on incapacity and carers allowance cos nobody gives a fuck
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:11, Reply)

depends
pricks on low salaries are mighty quick to say: "please sir, take some more - of their salaries"

people are by nature out to get what they can and keep what they can. and anyone who thinks otherwise is (i) naive and (ii) guaranteed to be a low earner themselves
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:15, Reply)

Yes but high earners have a lot more disposable income than low earners
so taking that bit extra doesn't make things a struggle for them.
( Peej, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:22, Reply)

And anyway my wife is an accountant and claims back all sorts of little bits here and there
Even though we could afford not too, so I am a massive hypocrite
( Peej, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:24, Reply)

You aint got a mortgage to pay in london
they're steep man
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:26, Reply)

I used too
and it was cheaper than the one I'm paying in Cornwall.
( Peej, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:51, Reply)

See also:
Expenses

My duck pond doesn't clean itself you know
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:46, Reply)

It's easy to be virtuous
when you're never going to have to put it into action.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:44, Reply)

fucking bollocks, you're basically saying that the more money you have the less desire you have to save it.

(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:49, Reply)

No, I'm saying the more money you have, the less likely you're going to be to want to give it to somebody else.

( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:49, Reply)

Which is a fucked up attitude.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:50, Reply)

It's human nature, I'm afraid.
This same instinct to hoard is the reason why capitalism even exists.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:51, Reply)

capitalism squirrels
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:54, Reply)

hahaha!
Nuts
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:55, Reply)

its human nature to be sexist/racist as well
or it was in the 50s
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:56, Reply)

You're confusing psychology with sociology.
Women were treated as inferior because society traditionally treated them as such. Human beings hoard resources. They fight to protect them, they covet those of others. It's a survival instinct. You can't simply get rid of it by making it naughty.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:59, Reply)

The greatest lie that capitilism has ever sold.
there's no evidence for that and there's a heap of Anthropological evidence that counters it.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:06, Reply)

Humans have only co-operated when it's in the individual's best interests to do so.
The minute they feel they're getting a raw deal, they instantly revert to type. If you want to see what human beings are really like, restrict the food supply. I guarantee you that you won't see any sharing for the greater good.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:08, Reply)

Yes well ~I can't really be bothered to counteract what you "reckon" when you're talking so much shit.
Go look at villages in Pakistan after the flooding or Japan after the Tsunami and see how they came together to do what they could in their comunities to help everyone.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:12, Reply)

Easier to get help to tidy up your own gaff
when you've got a whole bunch of people to help you, isn't it. Co-operation for individual gain.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:14, Reply)

Rationing during WW2
Families taking children from the cities etc.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:16, Reply)

Nobody was starving.
If you're going to analyse something that has its root in a survival instinct, you're goign to have to look at situations where it was present in its purest form.

You talk about a disaster, or a war, everybody's on a more or less equal footing. Nobody's actually starving, rationing was actually a great equaliser in that capacity. Nobody's at a survival level. The tsunami had international aid packages and the rest of the country's food reserves. When everybody else is suffering to the same extent you are, people are much more willing to co-operate.

I'm saying that capitalism has its root in the same acquisition of resources as that survival instinct. I'm not saying that all humans act like that all the time, but people are fundamentally selfish and will act in that way when they think they can get away with it.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:19, Reply)

There's a football thread
you can duel this out with rolled up Guardians if you want
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:22, Reply)

I don't get your argument.
Because peoples self preservation is not immediatly at risk, they didn't have to be greedy?
Unlike Jimmy Carr, who's starving and therefore only able to act under his primal urges.
(PsychoChomp, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:24, Reply)

You're taking it too literally.
When everybody has nothing, they will co-operate to survive. When there's an inequality, they will fight each other for resources.

The rich want to keep what they have because they've acquired it themselves, they have a me and mine attitude. The poor want a piece of it through taxing the rich to provide services or more dole money, or whatever. They have a me and mine attitude.

I was just comparing it to a survival instinct because, ultimately, I think it's the same aspect of our character that triggers the behaviour.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:26, Reply)

Man, those black bitches sure got me told

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:59, Reply)

that's not human nature that's a societal trend

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:59, Reply)

also the greater your ability to pay someone to help you hide it

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:50, Reply)

this is the real answer
if you can afford an £800 an hour tax lawyer...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:57, Reply)

I did that once, he saved me £802 in tax
Nakers 1 taxman 0, BOOM!
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:01, Reply)

This is true.
If I go shopping with £100, I'm less likely to spend it than if I go shopping with £10.

But that might just be me and not Rswipe.
( girlinthehole, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:51, Reply)

£100?
what can you buy for that?!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:57, Reply)

Monty...and everything he owns




and his flat
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:58, Reply)

300 packets of Fizzy Fangs from Sainsburys

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:58, Reply)

to be fair
if you earn the arse-end of fuck-all, it hardly matters anyway.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:47, Reply)

I will be genuinely impressed if he does pay the tax he owes
once his landfill recycling business takes off and he becomes richer than Croesus.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:51, Reply)

Don't forget about asteroids and meteors

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:56, Reply)

who?

( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:56, Reply)

Chompy

( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:56, Reply)

oh
meh

actually on a non-specific individual basis, i totally agree with you. the only people blithering about "fairness" and "everyone should pay this, that and the other" are the people who have fuck-all. the minute they earn or win or inherit a lot of money, it's a different story.

the only exception being the ex, who earns a fortune but genuinely supports higher taxes etc. the leftie twat.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 15:58, Reply)

Oh good god you dated al

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:00, Reply)

haha
al is gay
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:01, Reply)

Oh good god you dated al

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:02, Reply)

i earn a decent wage, pay my taxes
and look down on those that try to avoid doing so
(Quintno EXPERIMENT RUINED CANCELLED, LEFT 4EVER, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:02, Reply)

me too
but i maintain that people beating the "pay more taxes" drum are usually the people who do NOT earn a decent wage.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:04, Reply)

Of course, if you look at the percentages of what people put into the system compared to waht they take out
you'll seee that poor people are a real drain on the system, so technically, they should be the ones payingmore.

You can't argue with logic
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:05, Reply)

YES
kill them and use their bones to make MOAR oak flooring.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:07, Reply)

Thank God you're a lawyer, because you'd be a shit biologist.

( scarpe We Stole Bikes, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:13, Reply)

And an even worse carpenter.

( bane, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 22:01, Reply)

This is why I view people from a basis of contempt.
Human beings are, by and large, utterly unpleasant creatures.
( Kroney, Tue 19 Jun 2012, 16:06, Reply)