I don't see its undermining them, just asking for them to get their act together.
And worker opinion of union action is a union issue, not a governmental one.
The government are going to want to focus on sustaining services for as cheap as possible, and unions are there to get a good deal for their members, they're not meant to be mates. I don't think asking unions to do more to involve their members on their own futures is a bad thing.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Fri 18 Jul 2014, 10:24, 1 reply, 10 years ago)

But why don't union members put their faith in the power of the union so much?
Because of successive governments legislating to diminish their power.
You don't think this has an effect on new people joining?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 10:26, Reply)

That's the game though.
The government are always going to try and curtail union action as it's costly.
If you don't want the government to do that, exercise your right to strike, or protest, and then vote when given the opportunity, both nationally and within your union.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Fri 18 Jul 2014, 10:48, Reply)

But how can I if they reduce my right to strike?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 10:55, Reply)

I'm with you there, but I don't think a vote minimum effects your right to strike.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:02, Reply)

It's more about perpetuating the idea that unions are A BAD THING
I cannot possibly see how looking out for one another could ever be construed this way.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:07, Reply)

I know what you mean,
But I think governments are always going to be shitting on the unions, and I'm not sure the unions are doing enough to fight back. They live on this idea that they're for the worker , so the worker must love them. Whereas the worker is as open to government propaganda as everyone else, and the only way to fight back is modernise the unions. A poster on the back of a bog door is nothing against a government spin machine
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:10, Reply)

How will they fund this modernisation?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:13, Reply)

The members should pay for it.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:15, Reply)

I don't know.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:17, Reply)

I think perhaps part of the problem is the almost indentured nature of a union.
I worked for a school for a short period and I was very heavily leant on to join the union as the perception was that if I didn't, I was somehow betraying the rest of the staff. Unions seem to be hanging onto a perception of workers still being job-for-life, ill-educated and open to bully boy tactics.

I think perhaps modern workers are more mobile, more open to shifting around jobs and perhaps feel like the unions aren't relevant anymore. There's got to be a reason why turn outs for strike votes etc are pretty low and disengagement is usually the answer.
( Kroney, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:15, Reply)

Chicken/egg

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:16, Reply)

Don't really see how.
It's at least partly the union's responsibility to re-engage their members. They can't just sit back and say "well they need to re-engage with us, until they do we'll just assume they want to do what we want them to do".
( Kroney, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:20, Reply)

Sadly it's becoming increasingly less likely they will manage it as new generations enter the world of work believing there is something bad about unions.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:23, Reply)

Increasingly less likely?
Decreasingly likely?
Stupid language.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:28, Reply)

Because the only thing people outside of the union see
is when the union goes on strike. That inconveniences people and they don't like it.

Also public sector workers are less than 20% of the workforce. The large majority of the workforce doesn't have the right to strike and it pisses them off to see, say, teachers striking thus making working stiffs take holiday or pay for childcare.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:13, Reply)

Good point, comrade - the private sector should have greater rights too.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:14, Reply)

A-men to that, comrade.

(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:16, Reply)

I'd like to see better turn out in elections, both union and general.
I believe voting should be compulsory, but it should include the option 'None of the above'
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:08, Reply)

YOU CANT FORCE ME TO VOTE FACIST!

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:11, Reply)

Big brother knows what is best for you, comrade.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:13, Reply)